LAWLZ...armageddonz

[Kastil]

I'm an A and a D.  I don't get it because it is much cheaper for me to pay out of pocket at a clinic.  I have gone in several times before, paid $40 at a walk-in clinic for a visit and usually gotten either a very cheap (<$20) prescription or one of their free Z-pack style promotional packs.  

I definitely see people misusing the ER as a contributor to higher medical prices but I also see Medicare and Medicaid's failure to pay the bills that come their way or pay only a portion of the total cost and something that comes onto other paying members/companies.  I also see the wonton suing of pharmecutical companies and medical practitioners and the rising costs of keeping lawyers on tap.

There are pressing issues this bill didn't cover and its just icky.  Torte reform, a cap on  punitive damages, limits on class action lawsuits.  There's tons of other stuff out there.

[Jim Tressel]

I wholeheartedly agree that there are plenty of things, both included and excluded from the bill, worth bitching about.  Unfortunately, the mass media conversation has been hijacked by non-issues like death panels and shapeless threats of the socialism monster.  Instead of hosting an educated conversation with politicians about the nuts and bolts so the public would be informed and could direct their criticisms accordingly, we've had Fox News co-opting Tea Parties as part of their corporate image and liberals crossing their arms in defiance because they will have to pay for their own abortions.  So now have a watered-down plan with no interstate competition, no public option, no torte reform, no pharmaceutical price bargaining, and fines for the uninsured.

But, alas, this is where we find ourselves.  I am very happy about many of the things that the bill does (no pre-existing conditions, no benefit caps, can't drop you if you get sick, 80% of your premium must go to care and if it doesn't you get a refund, etc.) and for those reasons I'm pleased that it passed.  I do wish it had done more in some areas and less in others.  There will undoubtedly be changes over time and therein lies the lingering hope of democracy.  If something sucks bad enough, we can change it.  Let's just hope we can all stop throwing dollar bills at Parkinson's victims long enough to figure out what the fuck is going on and try to steer the ship instead of screaming at each other while demanding "our" America back.

America.

[Arctic]

IF we get "our" America back, does this mean we go back to the diffrent countries we all came from........   just asking

[Jim Tressel]

I hope not.  I'll have to ship bits of myself all over the world and at my current level of fitness they might charge me freight.

[Nightstalker]

Instead of hosting an educated conversation with politicians about the nuts and bolts so the public would be informed and could direct their criticisms accordingly, we've had Fox News co-opting Tea Parties as part of their corporate image

Yes, and while Fox was trying to hijack them, the Left media outlets were calling them racists and astroturf.

A grass roots movement Ignored a taunted by the President himself. Real mature.

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Of course that dumb bitch still has her job at CNN despite her blatant attempt to spin media.

And naturally it's just the FOX outlet that has an agenda.

IF we get "our" America back, does this mean we go back to the diffrent countries we all came from........   just asking

Out of curiosity which country would that be? I was under the impression you were a U.S. citizen.




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Now that we are post bill vote, and it is essentially into law, the fuckers that voted it in are still lying or misleading people on what's in it :

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Now we've already learned in this thread that there is in fact a penatly for not buying insurance.

Watching that video did I just hear Wiener say at 3:59 that they are not going to criminalize people not paying the fine? and that's in the bill?

If that's the case, then what's with the announcement that the IRS will need billions more and 16,500 more personnel to enforce the fine? Weiner says they won't be enforcing it 3:33 in the vid.

And in order for them to determine if we are or are not paying the fine, they will have to know our healthcare status.

Seems Pelosi is wrong, and what a suprise. The bill is in, and yet those which voted it in are still spouting fallacy on it, in attempt to prevent people from knowing they are getting shanked.

I also found it amusing that Wiener said "We are big healthcare providers, we in the federal government......... with tax, tax payers money". Took a while for him to  acknowledge us.

Yeah this bill is going to be great.

[thrun]

I don't think the racism claims are off base, last I read it was something like 50% of fox news viewers thought Obama was a Muslim and that negatively influenced their opinion of him.  I don't recall any allegations like this against any of our prior presidents, at least in these volumes.

The president's religion shouldn't matter anyways since this country was founded with the freedom to worship as you please.  I'm not saying it about people who object to health care, but I will say that I believe a huge majority of the birthers were just mad that an uppity nigger was in the white house and were scrambling to try to stop it.

The problem is that our news media is in the business of ratings, not informing us.  Just look at the people standing out in front of the protests highlighting the most hateful people for shock value.  Look at the way the O'reillys of the world wave their hands and yell over the people they are supposed to be interviewing. They are in the business of being divisive and obfuscating. 

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[Nightstalker]

I don't think the racism claims are off base, last I read it was something like 50% of fox news viewers thought Obama was a Muslim and that negatively influenced their opinion of him.

That's not racism. Islam isn't a race. And where exactly did you read that?

The president's religion shouldn't matter anyways since this country was founded with the freedom to worship as you please.

And if you are going to wave that stick in the air you are hypocritical because you yourself were bashing Palin for her religion, citing you were scared. That was one of your main talking points against her in the politics thread.

Thats a double standard Thrun, or do you not agree? Or is it ok to just hold that standard to Palin and/or other Christians?

but I will say that I believe a huge majority of the birthers were just mad that an uppity nigger was in the white house and were scrambling to try to stop it

And you come to this conclusion how? Who tells you that? Should inquiring people be branded racists just because you think so?



You pointed out the media is intentionally creating division, but again you are being hypocritical if you are sourcing it to come to conclusion that these people are racists.

The whole Left media was up in arms over the Obama Socialism poster with him as joker, citing it as done by typical right-wing racist who can't accept a negro in office. But when we learned it was in fact NOT done by a white person, nor of party affiliation, we didn't hear shit further on that.

Yes, the Oreilly's of the world come in many guises; Maddow, Olbermann, Matthews, Cooper, Kouric.

Just be sure that before you jump to brand people racists, you have actual idea on what's really going on.

[thrun]

It was GOP's sorry, not fox news viewers.  I'll address the rest when I get back form my appointment.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/03/24/the-fox-effect-67-of-gops-believe-obama-is-a-socialist-57-thats-hes-a-muslim-45-that-he-was-not-born-in-u-s/

[Nightstalker]

Yeah that link was credible up until the point I clicked on it and realized it's a blog, and I saw this on the left side:

"Watch George W. Bush Wipe Something Icky off His Hand onto Bill Clinton’s Shirt"

"Tea Baggers Show True Colors at Capitol – Called Civil Rights Heroes ‘Niggers,’ Rep. Frank a ‘Faggot,’ Spat on Rep. Cleaver, an African-American Minister"  (With no evidence cited)


Not a biased source at all.

[thrun]

They cite the source of the polling information,  take it from yahoo or any other number of places that mentioned the results. That was just the first one on my search on my way out.  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20100323/ts_dailybeast/7269_scarynewgoppoll

As far as the Christian thing, Obama is a Christian and I voted for him.  I think this is a rehashing of the same argument we had about this last time.  Since I wasn't clear enough let me expound.

I don't deny Sarah Palin her right to be a Christian and hold office, or any one else for that matter. I voted for Obama, a Christian.  My problem with her is that she uses her religion as an excuse to try and legislate her morality which happens to come from a fucked up sect that will entertains YEC ideas amongst other equally insane notions.  There's no middle ground here, to buy in to the ideas they put forth you are either not playing with a full deck of cards  or you've chosen to completely ignore rational thought and discussion.  These are not good leadership traits.  Let me know if that is not clear enough, I could probably write a 10 page paper on this with out breaking a sweat.


I come to the racism conclusion because it is most likely, if you have another conclusion put it forth.  Here is why I find it the most likely.

If you look at the ethnic origins of Islam it is predominantly practiced by non whites. Despite repeated, irrefutable evidence that Obama is not Muslim they insist on saying he is.  These people are either plugging their ears and going NEANER NEANER NEANER or they have a logical disconnect going on that they can't overcome.

The birth issue, despite undeniable proof to the contrary they claim that he was born in Kenya.  Again, either these people are willfully ignoring evidence or they have some sort of disconnect that they can't overcome.

One of the glaring things both being from Kenya and Islam have in common is that they are largely associated with brown skinned folks, so I don't think it's that huge of a leap to say that the people that ignoring the facts and screaming it over and over would rather just be screaming 'he's a nigger' but can't get away with doing that in our society.

[thrun]

As far as tea party racism, I did some research since I was curious.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/20/health-care-protesters-hurl-verbal-epithets-african-american-lawmakers/


edit**
Ok, now I am getting even more curious about this.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/12982

Literacy tests?  Is Tom just not choosing his words carefully, or is he a fan of Jim Crow laws?

[Nightstalker]

Let me know if that is not clear enough

Yeah it's perfectly clear. Obama gets a free pass despite attending a radical church, yet Palin has to be persecuted.

If you look at the ethnic origins of Islam it is predominantly practiced by non whites

Christianity is predominately practiced by non whites as well.

The public's hang up with Islam, is due to radical Islam. You don't watch 2 airplanes fly into 2 NY buildings, have an asshole go on a gun shooting spree on an army base, and just wake up the next day and have a positive outlook on Islam. I don't care how much Robot Unicorn Attack you play, there is a real world to return to.

One of the glaring things both being from Kenya and Islam have in common is that they are largely associated with brown skinned folks, so I don't think it's that huge of a leap to say that the people that ignoring the facts and screaming it over and over would rather just be screaming 'he's a nigger' but can't get away with doing that in our society

Or it's the fact that there was controversy with the birth certificate in the first place which has left people hung up on the issue.

Are black people that think 9/11 was an inside job with George Bush in on it racists?

or does that just apply to white people?

One of the glaring things both being from Kenya and Islam have in common..

One of the glaring things that George Bush and Kenya have in common is that after Katrina, GW visited Kenya on a power-sharing arrangement issue.

If you reverse the "a" and the "e" in Kenya, you get Kanye! And Kanye said G.W.hates all black people after Katrina  

[thrun]

When has Obama gotten up, in public and parroted out the beliefs that were put forth at this radical Church?

Have we forgotten Christians blowing up federal buildings, bombing at the Olympics and shooting up clinics?  Murdering Doctors? Why has the christian religion been given a free pass to breed violent radicals but Islam gets nailed for its extreme groups?

What controversy with the birth certificate?  It was all fabricated, there was no controversy.

[Nightstalker]

As far as tea party racism, I did some research since I was curious.

Yes, allegations. Great.

Just like the Obama Joker poster. Allegations of racism there too, up until we found the kid wasn't white at all! 

Ok, now I am getting even more curious about this.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/12982

Literacy tests?  Is Tom just not choosing his words carefully, or is he a fan of Jim Crow laws?

What are we looking at here?

He called President Barack Obama a "committed Socialist idealogue".   First he's accurate. The whole running campaign against Obama since he was a socialist/communist was a joke up until we actually found this to be true. He's said himself he wants to spread the wealth around. And.. lo and behold, look at the events that transpired this week, a new Socialist program!

"and built a reputation on his vehement opposition to illegal immigrants."  Damn Tom, God forbid you speak against immigrants which cannot spell a lick of English, yet get to vote.

We use to have a program which required immigrants to meet a certain criteria, and be upheld to language standards, and required to accept English as national language as part of naturalization process.

Oh that ole Tom, he's got some sneaky business up his sleeves. Keep an eye on him.

[thrun]

This is a little bit to wade through, but there's video of the faggot remark. Right around 37 seconds.  It's documented. 

http://bravenewfilms.org/