Swearing an Oath

[thrun]

Everyone has faith in something, even if it is your doubts. Proof is circumstantial and can be one thing to one person and something completely different for someone else. Why ask others for proof, are you incapable of finding it on your own?

because religious folks are the ones making the claim, and all I ask is that if you claim something is true and expect me to believe it you'd better also give me a damn good reason.   

[thrun]

Science is also wrong time and time again,

That is because science is a set of tools for trying to understand the world around us, not a set of preset ideas.   If the evidence points to one thing you go in that direction until evidence is found to the contrary. 

[meowcow]

AMEN BROTHER!
 Uh I mean I agree with what Thrun said.

[Redbear8]

Everyone has faith in something, even if it is your doubts. Proof is circumstantial and can be one thing to one person and something completely different for someone else. Why ask others for proof, are you incapable of finding it on your own?

because religious folks are the ones making the claim, and all I ask is that if you claim something is true and expect me to believe it you'd better also give me a damn good reason.   

Your major mistake is that you think I expect you to believe it. I have quite the opposite expectation of you. It's not my job to make you believe. I just have to spread the word. It's up to you to find the proof if you want it. If not, peace and chicken grease my good man.

[Redbear8]

Science is also wrong time and time again,

That is because science is a set of tools for trying to understand the world around us, not a set of preset ideas.   If the evidence points to one thing you go in that direction until evidence is found to the contrary.  

Religion is a set of tools as well, it's just trying to understand the supernatural world around us. To explain the things that science can't, yet. Tools for living life and being a good person. Is religion required in order to be good, absolutely not. But it does help some people. It gives them something other than men to put hope in. Men aren't worth much hope in my opinion. Scientists or not.

[thrun]

Religion is a set of tools as well, it's just trying to understand the supernatural world around us. To explain the things that science can't, yet. Tools for living life and being a good person. Is religion required in order to be good, absolutely not. But it does help some people. It gives them something other than men to put hope in. Men aren't worth much hope in my opinion. Scientists or not.

I've already had this argument once in this thread, attributing a god or a religion to the cause of something leads to stagnation and if we would have done so as human beings we'd all still be dying of small pox while our houses got struck by lightning.  

That doesn't mean I have to throw the baby out with the baptismal water so to speak, religion does serve a force for community and moral discussions. 

[thrun]

Your major mistake is that you think I expect you to believe it. I have quite the opposite expectation of you. It's not my job to make you believe. I just have to spread the word. It's up to you to find the proof if you want it. If not, peace and chicken grease my good man.

And your major mistake is that you are claiming to have the truth.   

[Redbear8]

Religion is a set of tools as well, it's just trying to understand the supernatural world around us. To explain the things that science can't, yet. Tools for living life and being a good person. Is religion required in order to be good, absolutely not. But it does help some people. It gives them something other than men to put hope in. Men aren't worth much hope in my opinion. Scientists or not.

I've already had this argument once in this thread, attributing a god or a religion to the cause of something leads to stagnation and if we would have done so as human beings we'd all still be dying of small pox while our houses got struck by lightning.  

That doesn't mean I have to throw the baby out with the baptismal water so to speak, religion does serve a force for community and moral discussions.  

That's only if you go along with the assumption that religion and science can't coexist. Which they can. Religion gives you the cause, science works to figure out the details of how it happened. You're right, if people place all their faith in one or the other they are equally misguided.

[Redbear8]

Your major mistake is that you think I expect you to believe it. I have quite the opposite expectation of you. It's not my job to make you believe. I just have to spread the word. It's up to you to find the proof if you want it. If not, peace and chicken grease my good man.

And your major mistake is that you are claiming to have the truth.  

It's my personal truth. Where's your proof that it's not? You can't prove or disprove a personal truth. You asked questions and I answered them based on my personal truths.

[thrun]

That's only if you go along with the assumption that religion and science can't coexist. Which they can. Religion gives you the cause, science works to figure out the details of how it happened. You're right, if people place all their faith in one or the other they are equally misguided.

What cause is religion giving me? And coexist they do, commingle they shouldn't.  It leads to bad science.  

[thrun]

It's my personal truth. Where's your proof that it's not?

1.  You can't be called upon to prove a negative, since it is impossible
2.  You claim that if I search i will find the truth, and that you are spreading the word of said truth.  Am I misreading your words?

[Redbear8]

That's only if you go along with the assumption that religion and science can't coexist. Which they can. Religion gives you the cause, science works to figure out the details of how it happened. You're right, if people place all their faith in one or the other they are equally misguided.

What cause is religion giving me? And coexist they do, commingle they shouldn't.  It leads to bad science.  

Bad science is ignoring any possibility. No matter how fantastic or unlikely. You can't find the ultimate truth unless you look at all otpions.

[Redbear8]

It's my personal truth. Where's your proof that it's not?

1.  You can't be called upon to prove a negative, since it is impossible
2.  You claim that if I search i will find the truth, and that you are spreading the word of said truth.  Am I misreading your words?

I claim that if you search you will find the truth as it pertains and speaks to you. I spread the word of my truth as an example of someone who has found this personal truth.

[thrun]

Bad science is ignoring any possibility. No matter how fantastic or unlikely. You can't find the ultimate truth unless you look at all otpions.

here's a cute video that explains why that isn't true.
[yt=425,350]T69TOuqaqXI[/yt]

[thrun]

It's my personal truth. Where's your proof that it's not?

1.  You can't be called upon to prove a negative, since it is impossible
2.  You claim that if I search i will find the truth, and that you are spreading the word of said truth.  Am I misreading your words?

I claim that if you search you will find the truth as it pertains and speaks to you. I spread the word of my truth as an example of someone who has found this personal truth.

Meh, we are arguing 6 of one or half dozen of the other again.  I'm just of the opinion that since this is all personal and subjective that at this point in my existence I don't have a use for it.  Which in the end, is my truth.