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Author Topic: Swearing an Oath  (Read 66669 times)
Redbear8
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where's the honey?


« Reply #255 on: September 22, 2009, 01:26:29 PM »

There is a difference between being unable to know what the truth is and not caring what the truth is. Which one fits you?

I'd like to think being unable to know fits me better, since I obviously care some what as I am willing to have conversations about it at great length with people.  Maybe don't know/abstaining from till I do fits me better?

I respect the hell out of you for admiting that, it at least means that your questioning isn't completely from a stand point of "I'm going to fuck with everyone just to be difficult" but to potentially find answers.

If you're open to answers then they will present themselves eventually, but it likely won't come from arguing with anyone on the interwebs. I randomly found mine from a handful of butterflies on a camping trip. (No I'm not kidding and yes I do realize the mockery this will bring upon me but I could really give two shits)
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thrun
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« Reply #256 on: September 22, 2009, 02:09:19 PM »


If you're open to answers then they will present themselves eventually, but it likely won't come from arguing with anyone on the interwebs. I randomly found mine from a handful of butterflies on a camping trip. (No I'm not kidding and yes I do realize the mockery this will bring upon me but I could really give two shits)

Most of my answers end up coming from massive amounts of hallucinogens.  Ego Death is a hell of a ride. 
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Redbear8
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where's the honey?


« Reply #257 on: September 22, 2009, 02:33:36 PM »


If you're open to answers then they will present themselves eventually, but it likely won't come from arguing with anyone on the interwebs. I randomly found mine from a handful of butterflies on a camping trip. (No I'm not kidding and yes I do realize the mockery this will bring upon me but I could really give two shits)

Most of my answers end up coming from massive amounts of hallucinogens.  Ego Death is a hell of a ride. 

If it was good enough for my Native American brethren then it's good enough for me.
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thrun
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« Reply #258 on: September 22, 2009, 02:40:45 PM »


If I'm wrong here please tell me how. If I'm not we can start looking for the creator.

I honestly have no clue how you read any of that from what I have shown you about the 2nd law, it's almost like you are sticking your thumbs and saying neaner neaner.  Plus to quote princess bride, you keep using the word teleonomy but it does not mean what I think you think it means.  Since I am not assigning an apparent purpose to the sun, and even If i did it would be a purpose in hindsight and not actually valid.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13620-evolution-24-myths-and-misconceptions.html

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=441

http://www.2ndlaw.com/evolution.html



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Aldoran
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« Reply #259 on: September 22, 2009, 03:05:28 PM »

Ahem.

http://www.thewolverines.net/forums/index.php?topic=4822.msg48943#msg48943

Or is there a problem answering questions that would reveal a bit of modern Christian bigotry?
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Redbear8
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« Reply #260 on: September 22, 2009, 03:45:20 PM »

Just for fun. Also take note that all these questions are pointed at Christianity, so these are the beliefs of most Christian Doctrine.

Do you believe Homosexuality is immoral, and is there a place for homosexuals in your god's heaven?

According to the written word Homosexuality is immoral. Christianity teaches that there is a place for every single soul in heaven, should they choose to accept it. That being said, a lot of Christians are extremists and misconstrue personal fears and hatred as doctrine. They are just as bad as any other extremist.

Do you believe that people who are "Pro-Choice" and are for keeping Abortion legal and safe, or who have had or performed abortions, have a place in your god's heaven?

See the answer to question number one.

Do you believe that only through a belief in Christ and an acceptance of Jesus as your lord and savior will you be allowed into Heaven?

This is most certainly one of the core principles of Christianity. Jesus Christ, Christianity. See any similarities?

If one is not allowed into Heaven, is the only alternative eternal torment?

In most Christian Doctrine it's one or the other, but there are exceptions. Catholics believe in Purgatory for example.

If the job of Christians is to spread the word and save people from torment, what happens to those who reject those teachings? If I choose to remain a para-pagan agnostic with militant Atheist leanings after reading the word of god, will I be damned for eternity?

The job of Christians is to spread the word, saving yourself from eternal damnation is entirely up to you. It's a decision that you and only you can make. So According to Christian beliefs, if you choose to ignore the word of God after you read it, then yes you will spend an eternity in damnation

What about Edna Goldstein, the Orthodox Jewish lady down the street?

She doesn't accept Jesus Christ as her lord and savior so she's headed to the fiery pits. There's always time to repent however, so long as rapture doesn't happen right now.

What about Ahmed Muhammed Kaleed, my high school chum? He's Muslim but went to the pentecostal church a few times when dating Cindy Mason, so he heard the word of god and the truth of Jesus but stayed Muslim. Is he fucked right now?

This has the same answers as the two above it. Just because you hear the word of God doesn't mean you accept it. If you hear it but do not accept it you are damned until you do.

What about the hundred branches of Christianity? Which is right? As a catholic I was taught that there are sacraments and rules, observations and prayers, but we didn't do the whole "personal salvation" thing. We accepted big J as a part of the trinity, each no more or less important than the other, and we prayed to saints for intercession.


Your numbers are a bit off. There are over 2000 sects of Christianity in the U.S. alone, not counting however many others there are throughout the world. You're a horrible Catholic. Jesus is just as important in Catholicism as any of the other thousands of sects of Christianity. Without Jesus Christ there is no Christiantiy.

Are all the Catholics fucked? Or the Mormons? they have that whole extra bible and the thing with the guy and the tablets and stuff... They are pretty boned, right?

According to Christian beliefs if they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior then they are not fucked. If they don't then they are. Why are you repeating the same question over and over with different names? It's not selective. Certain groups don't get in but others do. There are two groups, Saved and unsaved. Saved go to heaven unsaved go to hell. So once you've answered the first "Does ______ go to hell if he/she doesn't believe?" you've answered them all.

What about the Buddists, Taoists, Pagans, Wiccans, Druids, Atheists, polytheists (Greek pantheon worshipers, aztec revivalists, etc), and all the other believers (or not) out there who hear about Jesus, say "good for you" and then move on? Are they all banned from the Heaven of your understanding?

Yes they are.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 03:48:41 PM by Randoru » Logged

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Redbear8
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where's the honey?


« Reply #261 on: September 22, 2009, 03:54:20 PM »

Ahem.

http://www.thewolverines.net/forums/index.php?topic=4822.msg48943#msg48943

Or is there a problem answering questions that would reveal a bit of modern Christian bigotry?

A bigot implies there is hatred and intolerance which is not a wholly accept Christian attribute. Are there Christians who act on hatred and are unwilling to tolerate others because of their beliefs, absolutely. Is that what the bible teaches? No. Christians are not supposed to be judges or jurors. Every soul is judged the same by God and God alone. It is not our place as Christians to treat anyone with ill will because of their lifestyle choices.

It's just sad that because some choose to do so everyone is cast in the same negative light. Instead of basing your opinions on the actions of a few loud spoken flawed humans, do your own soul searching and learning to find out what the truth is.
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thrun
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« Reply #262 on: September 22, 2009, 03:56:07 PM »

As a note - I haven't practiced catholicism in over a decade, but I am pretty sure purgatory got ditched.  
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Redbear8
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« Reply #263 on: September 22, 2009, 03:57:47 PM »

As a note - I haven't practiced catholicism in over a decade, but I am pretty sure purgatory got ditched. 

Depends on where you go. It has been at some point considered an option so if I neglected to mention it I'd be nailed for it.
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meowcow
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« Reply #264 on: September 22, 2009, 03:59:44 PM »

I'd like to reiterate something that Thun said earlier and has not been answered. If the god of the Christians is real, where is the proof, and please dont quote the bible because it is most definately not proof. Or as i said to my very christian mother once "show me your God I want to see him"
Sorry Thrun I know thats not exactly what you asked but the meaning is the same.
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thrun
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« Reply #265 on: September 22, 2009, 04:03:55 PM »

I'd like to reiterate something that Thun said earlier and has not been answered. If the god of the Christians is real, where is the proof, and please dont quote the bible because it is most definately not proof. Or as i said to my very christian mother once "show me your God I want to see him"
Sorry Thrun I know thats not exactly what you asked but the meaning is the same.

They aren't going to be able to furnish an answer because god exists on faith, no matter what religion you chose.  Which is why I abstain from the whole process.

to quote homer simpson,

"But Marge, what if we chose the wrong religion? Each week we just make God madder and madder. "
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meowcow
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« Reply #266 on: September 22, 2009, 04:28:40 PM »

I'm rather fond of the Flanders quote "god I've tried to obey all your commandments even the ones that contradict each other"
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Redbear8
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« Reply #267 on: September 22, 2009, 05:12:19 PM »

Everyone has faith in something, even if it is your doubts. Proof is circumstantial and can be one thing to one person and something completely different for someone else. Why ask others for proof, are you incapable of finding it on your own?
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« Reply #268 on: September 22, 2009, 05:21:05 PM »

I ask for proof because I want to understand, to know why things are the way they are, is not the very act of asking my attempt to find said proof? As to faith/belief the same can be said for scientific things we cannot see, for example atoms, how a flashlight works, how a car works, but these things can be proven and yet you cannot actually show me an atom can you? As for me my faith is in science, what can be proven time and again.
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Redbear8
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where's the honey?


« Reply #269 on: September 22, 2009, 05:34:42 PM »

Science is also wrong time and time again, because it's performed by humans. Humans that make mistakes. Scientists struggle to find out what is real and to prove things, yet it may take them 100's of years to prove any one thing. Even then the proof is refuted 200 years later. Science while a very good, educational, earthly thing is not worthy of all of your trust.

But then again, you could say that something I can't prove isn't worthy of all of mine. That's why I say follow whatever gives you that peace and comfort. Whatever answers the questions the way you want them answered.

For some it's belief in an all mighty being that created our very existence. For others it's the science that attempts to find physical proof.

The bottom line is since both sides are controlled by humans, both have their flaws and short comings. For every one thing that science has proven, there are a million other things that it cannot. So you place your faith in the hopes that others will one day prove these things and I place mine on something that has been proven personally to me.
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"To open one's mouth indiscriminately brings shame, and there are many times when people will turn their backs on such a person."

-Yamamoto Tsunetomo
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