Swearing an Oath

[Nightstalker]

It's commonly misunderstood by both Christan's and non-Christians alike that spreading the word means converting people. I do what I'm supposed to do despite whether or not the world thinks I'm full of shit. I'm not after human approval.

Christian motivation is of self interest. Help others so you can help yourself from burning.
Membership would be much less significant without that terrorism tactic.

And while the foot troops are marching to the beat "saving" others, the captains and commanders reap the profits, driving fabulous cars, living in lavish houses.

If such a movement were genuine, to "spread the word" then you would see serious coordination between the leaders of such religions to carpet bomb free bibles from B-52's across the globe.

Instead, Pat Robertson wants to sell you a neon glow in the dark bible with gold trim for $39.95.
Money used to fund missionaries in Malaysia to spread to word to locals, so they will be more compliant when the 700 club wants to build that 18 hole golf course. Tee'in with Jesus. Hallelujah!

Of course the locals will get their share. They will get to work as caddie's and groundskeepers, and the more appealing and proper trim folk might get to staff the service desk.

You can always look into the exploitation of Native Americans through missionaries for confirmation on that.

I've been in retail for 7 years, and topping off the population at 100% to get your Jesus back is nothing but a merchandising tool.

And how about this cat Joel Olsten and Creflo A. Dollar and others like him that just straight up tell you through their interpretations of the Bible that God wants you to have wealth.  "you will see increase! you will see increase!".   Can't really argue against them since it's in the bible.

But oh knoes Night "its easier to drive a camel through the eye of a needle blah blah". Yeah? well they have a convincing arguement that God wants you to keep your wealth as he has blessed you, and is stated in the Bible.

The Bible has a point and counter point for EVERYTHING! resulting in excusings to do anything man wishes. 

It's unfortunate that such good people get drawn into the sado-masachist machine.

And for Catholics, the more responsible your rank in Church, the more you get torture yourself.
Must be nice to be told that your natural need to be with a woman is evil, so you get to beat yourself up every night with thoughts of being with another woman, or the guilty feeling of going to hell after you jack off.

For some that pressure even builds up to the point that somehow thats it's alleviation is transferred through molesting an alter boy.


Or how about for my parents which are Catholic, they sleep in separate rooms now because for years they have been waiting on my step father's first marriage in the Catholic church to be recinded...   Waiting on other flawed men to tell them that it's ok from God that they can sleep in the same bed, despite being married.

Catholicism in general is just fucked, with it's continued Greko-Roman tradition of Pantheon worship, with it's prayers to saints and Mary. That's Idolatry by it's own account.

It also worships a man in Rome who is above all others and is direct voice from God.
A position held by corrupt men whom have used their pawns for everything from political gains, to inciting a massacre in the middle east, citing that those that partake in the killings will enter heaven. This stated by Pope Urban II.


I think the biggest tragedy is that this overbearing beauracracy that is religion, is that it discourages many people who genuinely would search for the notion of God themselves. Instead we are left with jackasses with such notions as a flying spaghetti monster God, getting into debates with Jesus freaks over inconsistent or inconclusive information and evidence on either side.


I was once a gear in the motor of religion, though at some point I did something against it's doctrine... I thought for myself.

Different between myself and many others that when I spoke to Morpheus and took the pill, and left religion, I didn't let the oversaturation of false religion affect my reasoning on the existence of God.

[JesterDTM]

Follow Einsteins rule of faith. Since you can neither prove or disprove the existance of God you may as well be a believer. If you end up being right you get all the benefits. If you're wrong you will be dead so it won't matter.

[thrun]

Follow Einsteins rule of faith. Since you can neither prove or disprove the existance of God you may as well be a believer. If you end up being right you get all the benefits. If you're wrong you will be dead so it won't matter.

What the fuck do refuted inaccurate arguments from the 1600's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

have to do with Einstein?

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings. (Albert Einstein)

[Unnormal]

Wait, wait, wait. Did rando just whip you into a fury and make you admit that there is absolute truth?

If faith is personal and there is no right answer to the questions then there is no point in playing the game since I get the same benefit or lack there of no matter what I chose. 

[thrun]

Wait, wait, wait. Did rando just whip you into a fury and make you admit that there is absolute truth?

If faith is personal and there is no right answer to the questions then there is no point in playing the game since I get the same benefit or lack there of no matter what I chose.  

I am not sure how you derive that from me asking what the point of choosing is since I have no way of knowing what Truth is or if it exists.  

Jesus, now that I look you are even farming me.  I understand only quoting part of the statement so that we can refernce what questions we are answering, but the last part you dropped off here is fairly important in the context of what I was talking about with Rando.  


I say there doesn't have to be anything else, why because I SAY SO!  NEANER NEANER I WIN!

What I am saying is the same things I have sad over and over.  One, being that 'cause i sad so' is a shit ass explanation to use in an argument.  
and two, there is no point in choosing a religion or god since I have no way of knowing if I picked the right one.  

[Nightstalker]

Money in the church, hallelujah!

[yt=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/di9-PebV634&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/di9-PebV634&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/yt]

Look at the size of that stadium, er church.

Lol I dont even think that there were that many people gathered when Jesus spoke

The collection plate runneth over

[Unnormal]

Wait, wait, wait. Did rando just whip you into a fury and make you admit that there is absolute truth?

If faith is personal and there is no right answer to the questions then there is no point in playing the game since I get the same benefit or lack there of no matter what I chose. 

I am not sure how you derive that from me asking what the point of choosing is since I have no way of knowing what Truth is or if it exists.   

Jesus, now that I look you are even farming me.  I understand only quoting part of the statement so that we can refernce what questions we are answering, but the last part you dropped off here is fairly important in the context of what I was talking about with Rando. 

Ya the last point was important to Rando. But, you are "playing the game" are you not? If there was no Truth you wouldn't bother because there would be no point...right?

lol farming you I'm just trying to keep you honest by pointing out your own logic.

[Nightstalker]

Joel Olsteen preaches abundance through God, and of course the Olsteen's have to break a big piece off.

Here comes the sales pitch..
[yt=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DHCoqQ-0ecQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DHCoqQ-0ecQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/yt]

Meanwhile millions of unemployed Americans struggle, not to mention the same song and dance of being dying across the globe of hunger, while the Osteen's live phat.

[Unnormal]

To say the sun is somehow responsible for increasing order as a proof for evolution is almost silly. The sun helps produce order only if you have teleonomy. Otherwise the sun aids in the decomposition or entropy.


You seem to be under the impression that your perception of order has anything to do with the order the 2nd law is talking about.  

The second law concerns energy, not patterns of objects. The second law states that energy tends not to be restricted to one or a few energy levels in atoms and molecules, but to be dispersed to as many such levels as possible – rephrased in homely terms involving molecules, "Intense or concentrated energy tends to spread out and diffuse".

In that spreading-out process, macro objects sometimes are displaced and moved to random arrangements that humans subjectively define as "disorder". A violent wind not only can break a window in a building and blow the papers in an office all over a square mile, but also destroy the building itself. However, this is an incidental consequence of dispersing and spreading out of the energy in a tornado, not an event that is due to the innate nature or behavior of inanimate objects themselves in the absence of such an energy flow. Moving common objects around so they fall in disorder is a singular and accidental aspect of the universal tendency of energy to diffuse, not the general thrust or meaning or requirement of the second law that applies to objects.

The second law is a tendency, not an instantly effected edict. Its predictions might not come true for millions or billions of years. These kinds of delay are due to the second law being obstructed and hindered by what chemists call "activation energies". All the biochemicals in our bodies except inorganic substances are protected and kept from oxidation or other disastrous reaction by activation energies. Almost all the materials from which our orderly prized artifacts are made are similarly kept from rapid oxidation in air. The second law is a powerful generality, but it is often blocked (to our human advantage) in chemical substances, chemical reactions, and physical events in everyday life.
 
As far as talk origins, you don't have to take anything on talk orgins at it's word, the entire site is filled with citations to let you know how these conclusions have been arrived at.   And unless you are the smartest person ever and you've been wasting your potential up to this point, I don't think you are going to be able to amass a volume of research the likes of which they reference.  And if you did some how amass as much knowledge the collected works of thousands and thousands of scientists I'd be pretty effing amazed if you came to wildly different conclusions then the rest of them.  

Wow did I just get a 4+ paragraph response, without a rebuttal to my points or providing me with any evidence to the contrary?

To say the sun is somehow responsible for increasing order as a proof for evolution is almost silly. The sun helps produce order only if you have teleonomy. Otherwise the sun aids in the decomposition or entropy.

Is this not true? Is there evidence to the contrary? I could quote Dr. Ross again but I don't think I have to. I recognize that the second law of thermodynamics states it exist in a isolated system. But, since it's origin in 1824 there have been many versions of the law and they all have the same effect, which is to explain the phenomenon of irreversibility in nature. Logical entropy in a closed system has decreased. This is the violation that people are getting at, when they say that life violates the second law of thermodynamics. This violation, the decrease of logical entropy in a closed system, must happen continually in the darwinian account of evolutionary progress. The only exception is when a purposeful intelligence intervenes or there is a teleonomic system in place.

If I'm wrong here please tell me how. If I'm not we can start looking for the creator.

[Unnormal]

Dear Night,
    Your ability to point out the peoples obvious evil intent and misuse of Christianity is dually noted. However, your unwillingness to listen to what The Bible says about such things and insert your own reality is disheartening. If that is where it stops for you that's fine. I have said it over and over again the biggest cause of atheism in the world today is Christians. Christians who don't live what they believe, and don't follow the words of God. You won't listen or acknowledge the truth of scripture because you would rather point out people who would pick your pocket in the name of Jesus. While their actions are inexcusable and disgusting, so is using them as an excuse to not look into something for yourself. Take the Bible for what it says, and not what people have made it say.
In Christ,
Unno


People would say that that sin doesn't exist. But only a fool would say there is no such thing as right or wrong.

People would say that God's judgment is wrong. But who of you wouldn't seek justice if you or a loved one were robbed or beaten or killed.

People would say man is not evil by nature. But, our history has always proved otherwise.

People would say that if you want to believe in anything, there is a God or a belief system for that. But, if you find a belief system that appeals to human nature what does that say about that belief? If truth exist there can be only one.

People would questions God's ability to keep his word? But, who has the knowledge to know such things. Who among you can provide evidence to the contrary.

People would tell you not to worry about the great unknown, but they seek the unknown constantly.

It has been said to many times why this God and not one of the others? What others!? The one that the pedophile hiding in a cave told you was telling him we need to kill everyone to accomplish some political mission? Is Allah not strong enough to do it himself?
The one that tells you that you are God? and the best thing you can ever hope for is non-existence?! The one that tells you that we will be reincarnated forever (which would require an eternal universe) and not to pay back anyone because they will get there's in the next life? The one that tells you there is no truth or right or wrong all roads lead to God? The one you can make up on your own based on your own understanding? How much do you know that you could understand God? The one that no one knows about anymore? Would God allow that to happen?

Or the ONE the ONLY ONE that preaches Christ crucified for your sins! That we are in a sinful state and need forgiveness. That God loves you and wants a personal relationship with you. That humanity has lost it's way. That God created the heavens and the earth. That there is truth. That he doesn't need anything from you, but you need him. That there will be justice, but that there is also a free gift of forgiveness at his own expense. Where is the alternative Jesus?! Where is the historical evidence for the life of another Messiah? Where are the millions of people willing to die, to tell other people about Krishna? I have said it before that there is a war going on for the souls of men. This is not a statement made in jest. There were 45 million Christians murdered in the 20th century. around 160,000 Christians have been killed every year since 1990. Not these rich devils selling "holy water" or preaching like an infomercial. I'm talking about real Christians who leave everything so that, one person might have the opportunity to hear about the ONE true God.
It was said in 63A.D.
"let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
"This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
What other belief system corresponds with what we know about human nature, history, science. ect what other one corresponds with your personal understanding of reality.
You won't find forgiveness anywhere else, you won't find hope, you won't find a relationship anywhere else, you won't find salvation, you won't find truth and you definitely won't find true fulfillment anywhere else.

I have said it over and over again in the search for truth you come to one conclusion. This isn't some religious platitude or light statement. It is the truth. But, so many would ignore that all together in exchange for a belief system that lets them lead lives of sin. You would say God came just to condemn you, No Jesus came that you might have a chance at salvation.

Ya this goes against everything society would teach you. It goes against people who would tell you to find your own truth. But listen to me very carefully. If truth is found only an individual basis, then truth doesn't exist. If truth doesn't exist, then we are all to be pitied for the curse of consciousness.


Videos of people claiming the name of Jesus to do evil are abundant. If you want to take 5min and listen to a real Christian speak. Feel free. (one of my favs)
[yt=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KQxceqeQrk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KQxceqeQrk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/yt]

[Ellanorah]

For educational purposes on the the belief in Jesus:


Who is Jesus? Jesus the prophet, the teacher, the man, the God? I want to clear up some of the misunderstanding currently encountered with people who do not know about Christ. Who he said he was, and who he is. One of the first and most understandable discrepancies is the term only begotten son. But how is he the only begotten son? God himself says we are all his children. What is missed is the term begotten. The only time this is used when referring to a son of God is when talking about Christ. The Hebrew in which it was written is monogenēs  which means sole or single thing caused to be. How can that be? That sound blasphemous as we were all created by God. You see Jesus was  the only thing caused to be by God's existence. Meaning that he always was and always will be. He is in fact an express image of God. The bible explains it like this.

I stopped there...
Jesus is the literal Son of God. The physical son of God (alothough we do not know HOW this came to be, only that Christ needed to be both MORTAL and Immortal). He only could take upon him the sins of the world and conquer death. Death is not the end, but had this sacrifice not been paid we would have been cut off from God. This was essential to God's plan for us, that we might all return to live with God again.
We are, however, all SPIRIT children of God.  We lived with God before coming to this world.  we were beings without flesh, yet our Father had flesh. We wanted to be like him. The only way was the we go to earth and obtain physical bodies that can love and hurt, cry and laugh etc. We needed those experiences because without a physical body, we could not have them.
We could not return to God in our fallen state as we are not "perfect". This is where Christ makes intercession on our behalf.  We cannot possibly make our wrongs up to God, Christ alone has suffered the sins of the world to make that payment.  Justice and Mercy are satisfied through Christ. Justice calls for us to suffer for our wrong doings, Mercy would see us be free from suffering.  If we believe and come to Christ and do his will, he will allow his suffering to fufill our punishment.

Note: This is kind of deep doctrine, and I would appreciate it if noone calls it a bunch of nonsense.

[Ellanorah]

There is a difference between being unable to know what the truth is and not caring what the truth is. Which one fits you?

I'd like to think being unable to know fits me better, since I obviously care some what as I am willing to have conversations about it at great length with people.  Maybe don't know/abstaining from till I do fits me better?

doesn't that make you Agnostic and NOT Atheist?

[Nightstalker]

However, your unwillingness to listen to what The Bible says about such things and insert your own reality is disheartening.

Insert my own reality?

Proper text does not need clarity, nor a need for one to insert their own realities.

so is using them as an excuse to not look into something for yourself.

Now either you are being oblivious to my commentary, or you are starting to distort the facts, much like you did with the Homer statement some time back. I gotta hand it to you though, you've adapted to the machine fast enough to learn forging facts already

As stated, I was previously in religion.. Baptist to be specific. "Saved" and all. I had also previously attended catholic schools earlier in my life, so to say it's something I haven't looked into myself is really way off base.

Take the Bible for what it says, and not what people have made it say.

The Bible suggests alot of things. Alot of things contrary

You can't murder, but you can kill. God loves all his children, but he hates his children that don't follow. eye for an eye, turn the other cheek. Jesus died for your sins to be washed away, yet those sins keep popping up. And on and on and on.. all throughout the book.


That said theres some sensible bits I practice from it.. the essential don't kill anyone (as is one of many interpretations), love thy neighbor, dont steal, dont lie on anyone that would be disadvantageous for them. Though all these could be associate with common morals and not necessarily have to be exerpt from the bible.

People would say man is not evil by nature. But, our history has always proved otherwise.

Evil is a matter of opinion.

That he doesn't need anything from you,

Yeah, nothing except 10% of everything we have, our bodies, our souls, our fears, our attention.
Once you get past all that, the requirements scale back a bit.

True God has been hijacked in this regard.

Where is the alternative Jesus?! Where is the historical evidence for the life of another Messiah?

Where's the historical evidence for the first Messiah?

I have said it before that there is a war going on for the souls of men.

Simultaneously theres a war going on for rational thinking.

Videos of people claiming the name of Jesus to do evil are abundant. If you want to take 5min and listen to a real Christian speak. Feel free. (one of my favs)
[yt=425,350]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KQxceqeQrk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6KQxceqeQrk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/yt]

More terrorism.


But that's ok man I will still love you, despite the fact you have come under mind control.
For someday you will open your eyes and see you are subjegated by rhetoric that seeks to dominate your capacity to appreciate your individuality.

A rhetoric that claims to unite all men, but divides them in their thoughts, as they try and discern who among them that are close, will go to heaven, and who will burn in hell. A rhetoric that divides men by encouraging elitism by creating a cosmic divide of the damned and the saved.

And some day you may beat that rhetoric, and find a vibrant free will, as given by God to think and reason and do for yourself. And you will find the reward in helping others when it's out of your own free will, and not motivated by fear or eternal self interest.

Only then can you start your journey of discovery for true God.

[Troyer]

So

many

words

...

[Kastil]

So
many
words
...

Indeed, so here's my real question.

Why is it when I hear or read something like "White momma takes dozens of black cocks" or "Let me watch you shit on a plate" it doesn't make me feel icky but when someone says something along the lines of "Ooooo! I like to smell stinky socks/pantyhose/armpits!"  it just kind of grosses me out?
Is nothing sacred anymore?

p.s. TD Jakes is my personal favorite preacher.