Swearing an Oath

[Kastil]

That video is ignorant Ella.  Shame on you.

i was trying to bring some silly to this thread.....

It ain't working with this one Ella.  Chow and I have been trying for a couple of pages now.

[Ellanorah]

these kinds of discussions get people no-where

no matter what anyone says peoples beliefs or whatever aren't going to change.  I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with things going round in circles.

also, as a side note, I have proof that there is a God, but its not good enough proof for people who don't believe, so why bother?  I learnt a long time ago that you can't make people believe something they dont, or don't want it.  Doesn't mean i dont care any less about them, just means i try not to talk about certain stuff with them.

[Unnormal]

See I disagree completely I think It is the most important thing anyone can possibly talk about. They get people no where? Ella let me ask you how did you come to believe what you believe? Did you simply believe in one day with no prior knowledge or did some one tell you about it? If you knew something to be true, anything, anything, at all not just in the area of philosophy or theology. Why would you not want to tell other people. If you knew it was going to rain tomorrow I imagine you might bring it up in conversation, but when it comes to the truth of God for or against you would be silent? Even if no one changes there minds they are better for it. They know even more what the believe and why they believe it. They know the counter arguments, the other side of the story, the reservations people have. You try not to talk about certain stuff with them? Would you rather us have a deep conversation about Kanyae West? Or discuss the moral short comings of octo mom? Discussing what you believe is a huge part of who you are. A HUGE PART.

And don't get me wrong I'm in no way chastising you. Your the only other person who has come out and told me what you believe. The only one. One more time MLK Jr. just for fun.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

[Nightstalker]

Thats what im talking about.

And don't get me wrong I'm in no way chastising you. Your the only other person who has come out and told me what you believe.

I think there's been quite a few other folks here that have.

[Ellanorah]

Unno, i grew up going to church, my parents are members, my dad converted in in 20's my mothers parents converted when my mother was 5.
It's all i've ever known. I go to church, when i was younger  i went to the programs my church had for youth etc. But all through it I never actually had that moment of "ZOMG!!! it's true!! hallelujah!!!". It was more gradual, building on the knowledge i had.  I struggle sometimes, I admit. I don't always do the things i'm suppose to and while i believe in God, i sometimes feel like I don't matter.  There have been things that i have gone through that noone should have to.  And while thats no excuse, it's still in the back of my mind.  So, as a believer or what have you, I still ask the same questions these guys seem to be asking, "like why, if God loves us does this happen?...etc".
Also, the things I've been taught and FOUND out for myself make sense (i dont want you dudes thinking i'm brain washed or whatever).
Yes, I want people to know the truth, but I can't make them believe me when i tell them.
Who am I to tell someone that they are wrong and going to hell? (when i honestly dont believe that those who don't believe will go to Hell, because in my religion, we don't technically believe in the whole "fire and brimstone" hell most christians are so fond of)
Who am I to sit here, at a computer, typing at people whom I've never met (mostly) and tell them that they are sinners, that they NEED to believe etc, when i don't even know them?
I can't make those judgements.
I also don't agree with mainstream Christianity either.  There is a LOT of confusion out there, yet everyone claims that what they know is from the bible. If everyone is reading the same bible then why are there so many interpretations of what scripture means?

I agree with Night too...I think the others have said what they believe, even if its a "I don't believe in God".

I want to be switzerland when it comes to religious discussion.

[majer]

you could try pastafarian its the newest religion check it out, click the link! It will either open your mind to new things or melt your brain at the concept.

 http://www.venganza.org/

[Jim Tressel]

I keep seeing the words "truth" and "God" in the same sentence and it makes me sad to be a human.

[Unnormal]

I think there's been quite a few other folks here that have.
No, there has been a lot of people that have said what they do or don't believe on specific points. But, no one but ella has actually said here is my belief system (LDS). Even Thrun, who I assume is a naturalist based on what he has told me. Has not come out and said, what exactly he believes. You told me you believe in a God somewhere based on what you know about cosmology and astrophysics, but that doesn't constitute a belief system by which you judge all information you are given. Not that that is a big deal, I actual prefer it that way it makes asking questions or giving criticism about Christianity open to all points of view. (e.g.) Thrun said he doesn't believe in God so he doesn't blame him for anything, but If he had told me that prior he would not have not been able to ask me the the why doesn't God heal amputee's question in good conscience or with such fervor because I would have already know that wasn't a valid question to him based on his belief system.

Stay tuned night and friends, I'm writing a little (long) note right now about some Physics that will blow your trolling mind.  

[Nightstalker]

Stay tuned night and friends, I'm writing a little (long) note right now about some Physics that will blow your trolling mind. 

The only physics that you could post to blow my mind, happened tonight in Huskees stadium.

[Unnormal]

Guys I want every one to know that I just discovered time travel. I'm now 10^16 seconds younger than all of you saps still living in the future. I thought since it is unfair for just me to know how to do this, and we're talking about truth I'll teach you all how to travel through time too. If you have a bed or a tall chair next to you climb up on it, I'll pause so you can do it............ Congratulations! Fellow time travelers welcome back to what we call the “present” come lets tell the world what we have found! I can hear it now oh man Unno has really lost it. He is now a time traveling  messenger of Jesus this has to be a troll post.

Well I'm not crazy and it wasn't my idea I can't take credit for it. It was Einsteins.  He said “there is no distinction between time and space”. It is a property separate of our being. And as it turns out he was right.

Drop science- To educate or “school” someone.

There were two Atomic clocks made. Even better and more expensive than a Rolex. There the most accurate clocks we can make. Both are accurate up to better than one second in a million years. One is in Greenwich, England one is in Boulder, Colorado. Awesome inventions based on some serious science that would fry or brains so we won't touch on that. But, there turned out to be a problem, that had some smart people baffled for a long time. The one in Colorado ticks 5 micro seconds a year faster than the one in England. Call in the watchmakers there is a problem which one is right?! Answer they both are. You see Boulder sits at 5,400 ft altitude. Greenwich is at 80ft.  The time is not a clock problem the time is different at each place. You see if I had one of these clocks here and raised it next to me one meter the time that that clock was measuring would speed up by 1 part in 10^16. Not a big difference but it is measurable, predictable, and conformable. (It has been proven 14 different ways conformable up to 19 decimals.)

So what does that mean to you just sitting at your computer wonder if your actually going to have to take the time to read all this. It means that time is not what you think it is. It is a physical property. Effected in measurable ways by mass, gravity and acceleration/velocity. It also would seem to confirm Einsteins theory that there are other dimensions besides the 3 that we know. Don't let that term intimidate you. We were all taught in school that if you add up the angles of a triangle the angles will always equal 180degrees. Which is true, in the second dimension. If you add up a triangles angles and it has more than 180degrees that just means that it is in the next dimension the third (e.g. a triangle on a ball). So when we see time breaking the rules of what we know. Linear time travel only being able to go forward that means that were seeing, the indicator of the next dimension. That perhaps if there was someone who knew how to use those dimension like we do the third (we can go whatever direction we want) That they could move throughout time and in fact be in all time at once. Think of standing on line vs. standing inside a circle..... Funny that is exactly what God told us he does in scripture. That aside the knowledge that time has physical properties, has huge implications in the various scientific fields.


Now when scientist talk about “the big bang” or the “singularity” that started the universe as we know it. They just did Christianity the favor of confirming our beliefs that we had by simply by taking the Bible seriously. Of course they still hold to the ideal that First there was nothing and then it exploded. Because, they are trapped within the boundaries of there own belief system.

When Matthew Maury “the father of oceanography” was studying naval travel and navigation he was also studying the bible. Though he had serious doubts about it's accuracy he enjoyed studying it. So when he read Pslam 8 the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea,   whatever passes along the paths of the seas. That seemed to apply to his field of study, so he put it to the test.  Maury is to oceanography what Einstein was to physics. In 1855, Maury wrote the first textbook on modern oceanography, The Physical Geography of the Sea and Its Meteorology. In this work, Maury presented oceanography from a delightfully Christian view. He included Biblical passages of meteorological and other scientific importance, such as the Scripture quote from the book of Job (28:25) which refers to God’s making ‘the weight for the winds’. He explained the Biblical statement this way:
‘. . though the fact that the air has weight is here so distantly announced [in Job], philosophers never recognized the fact until within comparatively a recent period, and then it was proclaimed by them as a great discovery. Nevertheless, the fact was set forth as distinctly in the book of nature as it is in the book of revelation....'
He dominate this field of science by uncovering God's creation using God's word as his guide. He did discovered the “paths” underneath the sea's.

I could go on about the hundreds of other Christian scientist, who have done the same thing. Or the thousands that acknowledge there had to be a creator even though it may not be the God of the Bible. Or the Atheist scientist who continue to discover what we have believed all along by our study of scripture.

The point is is that there appears to be a basis of truth. So when I hear the usual mocking by contemporary scientist and its students. About how stupid we are for disagreeing with them about the age of the earth (which there estimates are always changing by the millions). Because of an ancient book. When they can prove (And they can I have seen it) That these solar systems are moving away from us at incredible speed (thought to be the speed of light). And they are trillions of miles/many light years away. Which by mathematical calculations would put the universe at roughly 16 billions years old. I put my trust in God and his word, and wait for God to say once again. 1Cor :Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

The theory: Edit* This theory of mine got dominated as I was using the idea of recessional velocity for my age basis a huge mistake on my part and pointed out in detail by Thrun.
When scientist talk about the universe and the age of it(that is constantly changing). They are thinking along the lines of time itself being a constant. Which is why I had to go through explaining to you the fact that it is not a constant. It is a physical property. That is effected by mass, velocity, and acceleration. Our knowledge of space is somewhat limited as to what we can experience but in their own words. They talk about theories: Black holes, dark matter, plasma, physical objects moving at the speed of light, infinite mass. All things we know effect time! We know that here on earth based on our gravity, mass, and acceleration. That an hour is an hour, a minute is a minute. Though we can see and measure the slight  difference that our own physical properties have on time. How can they possibly tell me, that the universe is 16 billion years old. When they by there own admission, can only guess the physical properties that govern the universe. If the entire universe had the same physical properties of our earth and solar system, then they could fairly judge the age of the cosmos based on it's distance from us. But, here on earth time is measurably changed if we move one meter up or down! What would happen if you moved something a trillion miles away at the speed of light that surrounded a gravitational force like that of what they believe a black holes has. Or the center, something moving that has infinite mass.
Well in light of some of the recent discoveries we're trying to work on what they call the “stretch factor” how much time itself varies through out the universe. While this is all speculative theoretical physics. The estimates of the stretch factor on how time would be effected in the cosmos is 10^12.

Just for fun to make a few scientist loath there own theories:
Lets adapt the exponential stretch factor to the singularity, to see how long the “big bang” took to make all things.
Lets take scientist estimate of the universe 16 billion multiply it for days 365 then divided it by the approximation of the stretch factor.

16,000,000,000
X
365
=5840,000,000,000 divided by 10^12 = 5.84 days

6 days. I could have skipped the (vastly simplified) math and read Genesis for you but we all know that that old book is just a bunch of made up stories not to be taken literally.


While you could spend your whole life learning and adapting these scientific principal most of us just want to play video games. So I would suggest some light reading instead. In Six Days : Why Fifty Scientists Choose to Believe in Creation or In the Beginning or  Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood. If you finish those and are hungry for more just let me know.


Night you asked a question way back that I never got to If all powerful God wanted you to know of his existence, why tell one, or a handful of humans, instead of everyone throughout time?  I could tell you about how we can see his creation and know he is God. Or point out that you know of both Christianity and the Bible so even by what you would see as indirect means you are given the truth. But I think I'll let Varg answer for me.  If there is a god, and im not saying there isnt, he has designed everything in such an orderly and scientific way that its hard to belive we have to rely on blind faith for much of anything, even belief in his own being.

[majer]

dude unno my A.D.D prohibits me from reading your post. otherwise I would...

[Unnormal]

Oh man it is good come on I promise. Alright alright you got me I just tried to read it and didn't have enough time   gime 5 min I'll put up a video with pretty sounds and pictures to help show you what I was talking about.

[Unnormal]

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[Nightstalker]

I could tell you about how we can see his creation and know he is God. Or point out that you know of both Christianity and the Bible

Thats really not an answer for me. I'm firm in the knowledge of God's existence.

Thats more a matter of question towards religion.


If Jesus is the only means through salvation, then that leaves quite a few people disenfranchised.
- The whole cord of peoples that hadn't heard of him since.
- All the people living prior to his time period.

Seems if Jesus is mandatory, then that suggests the Creator would be lacking in efficiency, as the most efficient way would be just to directly contact each individual.

[JesterDTM]

Ella, have you heard of John Morgan?