Swearing an Oath

[Reddawn]

Can you read? I could give a shit about all of it. I don't believe in all that mumbo jumbo but I'm not going to sit and argue with people about stuff they believe in. Hey it's great Unno has found religion and if it comforts him great! I am just saying there are people who might get bent out of shape with the stuff that's getting posted. I've had a couple people tell me they were getting sick of the forums and as a "council" member I am supposed to make sure peoples vaginas don't get hurt. Politics and religion are inflammatory subjects and in the past have been frowned upon. I just don't want to lose posters over stupid shit. At this point I think enough people have been run off.

You guys will get your trolling forum....so in the end you win.

I'm getting down off my soap box now.

[Nightstalker]

Is this serious? You do realize me, Thrun and JT just fuck with each other right?

I can tell you that Unno is just as happy to pronounce his stance of belief, just as much as Aldoran is to challenge it, otherwise these folks wouldn't be churning out paragraph posts.

I don't necessarily agree with all of Thrun's stances, or all of JT's stances, but I know those guys would be fun to kick it with, as im sure there would be some great drunken debating, and they wouldnt get all sandy about counter stances.

Has this forum grown so much of a softcore vag?

[Jim Tressel]

...fucking liberals...

[Varg]

ok it's perfectly fucking clear that you faggots will talk about this til the end of days and never change your stance on it....so please.....enough already. You are all geniuses. Congratulations.

This.

[Unnormal]

ok, so we agree that faith healing is bullshit then?  I said the exact opposite of that. I pointed out that healing comes by faith. It is not a sign forced on unbalivers to prove God exist. Faith is the reason the actual literal healing is done.

the way your infallible holy book was interpreted might be a wee bit off? Could it be that the book isn't infallible? It is true that sometimes Christians misunderstand the words of God but that comes form not knowing all of scripture.  

Could it be that the book isn't infallible? No, I have found no fault with it and nethier have you. That might be a bit presumptuous, but if you had I assumed you would have braught it to my attention instead asking about amputees.

Finaly the answer I have been trying to beat out of you, your god will hand down eternal tourment if I don't kiss his ass. No matter how much I strive to be a decent person, no matter how much I help the least of his creation, if I don't sing his praises he will see to it that I suffer pain unending.  No, I said he will judge each man accourding to his works. God judges justly, does he warn us of the consequences of unrepentant sin...yes. After the fall of man, there were consequences. Just as now there are consequences for our sin. First of all death. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Not just physical death, but all who die without forgiveness there is eternal separation from God. That is hell. We can't understand separation form God because we have never experienced it. The bible describes it as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. This is not a scare tactic, but a warning. God almighty saying please don't go there! He never wants you to have to know what that is like. 2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance

I have a hard time believing that the children (let's say 7 and under) of any of these nations were physically capable of rape or murder.   Thats a valid point, and a good question. You have poor innocent children, living among these people and being sacraficed to Baal, raped ect.. God took them home. If there were no life after death this would be an atrocitie (which is where your accusation of cruelty comes from.) God does not unjustley judge. Any child who dies without understanding/ been given the chance to accept or reject God is not condemend. He took them out of hell on earth and took them to heven. What would you suggest? He leave them in the dessert alone or allow them to continue to live in their suffering?

This does show to me at least, that morality is a social construct and always changing.  There is no absolute morality.  Funny I think most reasonable people, would see this and aknowledge that morality is needed because man is evil and corrupt. There has to be a bases for morality, or else it is just opinion. Opinion that leads to tolerance, tolerance, that leads to corruption, corruption that leads to evil, evil leads to judgment. I could give 100 examples of this happening through out history.

What would I like to see happen?  For the people of the nations to stop and think about the golden rule.    Funny that was the very thing God wanted.


 
You know, I was going to let the hope thing slide but the more I think about it is to ridiculous for me to let pass. In order for me to blame god for any problems, I would have to believe he existed.  So I don't blame god for anything.  

I don't care if people want to believe in a god, I really really don't.  But to argue that a godless existence is some how hopeless or that a person's inability to cope with tragedy is a sound argument for adopting religion is ridiculous.  I have friends, family and loved ones that have been besieged by tragedy.  I am sure we all have.  And no where do I need to turn to god for hope.  My hope is that my friends will have a good life and i will see them again and again, and for those that have died I have the fond memories of them to think back on.  When shit hits the fan, and I get sad I turn to one of the people around me and get a hug, share a laugh or cry over a beer.  To call a life full of friends and loved ones hopeless is ridiculous.
Thanks for editing that story in Thrun I really enjoyed the whole thing. I'm very happy that you have people around you that make you feel that safe and that happy.
But, you must realize that that is definitly not the reality for most of the people in the world. And that people fail, your friends won't always be there for you. I'm sure you have experienced the painful end of relationships. Being temporarily happy because of the company you keep or beer, and having actual hope are very diffrent things. a godless existence is some how hopeless or that a person's inability to cope with tragedy is a sound argument for adopting religion is ridiculous. Awww thrun!  ;DThis isn't a talk about adopting religion!  Go and read my first post one more time for me. "this isn't about opposing theology or conflicting view points on how we see Jesus. This is about your life. It is about more than what you do in your free time, what you have decided your purpose is, it is what life is all about, and what love is." You think I'm trying to get you or anyone to adopt some man made evil beast called religion your dead wrong. I'm I trying to challange your beleifs, so that you might to realize the hope and love of God.
You just told me that you have had freinds and family pass away. Then right after you told me that your friends are the source of your hope. Friends are going to fail you, not just in death, but freindships fall apart. How can your hope be in something that you know is temporary. Or beer, I know you were using this more of a figure of speech, but not for everyone. Thats how alcholoics, drug addicts, sex addicts are made. That is there line of thinking. To do whatever it takes to not deal with that pain, to avoid coping with reality. Even if that means drinking yourself to death. That doesn't sound like hope to me.

[thrun]

I would continue this conversation with you, but I am already breaking a promise to some one by posting in this thread but I feel rude not at least acknowledging your post.  

If we lived with in proximity to eachother, I'd invite you out for a beer (or ice cream) so we could argue in person.  I'd be tempted to invite a socialist friend out who's thesis for her doctorate is on love as a force for change since you broached that subject, but really I am done with this thread since it seems to be upsetting a large number of people from what red says.

Let the truth be known...
[yt=425,350]BEjLE82wBXw[/yt]

[Segnam]

I think the trolling section should have a warning attached to it.  No visiting if you have sand in your vagina, or if you are already a Reptoid.

[Unnormal]

My wife's cousin burned her seven month old baby in his crib.

Little Wayne lived for twenty days blind, burned over his most of body. his hands and legs were amputated, his eyes and ears burned from his head. He looked like charred meat with a mouth.

He suffered horribly for nearly three weeks, every movement was enough to make him scream, even over the effect of the drugs.

Maybe his faith wasn't strong enough?

maybe if he believed a little harder?

Maybe he needed to suffer so he's be right with god when Jesus finally let him into heaven?

Maybe this life is for suffering and Wayne was just a good seven month old Christian?

Save your God wants us to know suffering bullshit for someone who didn't see things like this. If your faith is strong enough to ignore reality, fine, but don't ever say "suffering is what god wants" or "god knows you'll suffer and he wants it that way".

If your God exists and knows exactly suffering will be, and yet does nothing for this baby or the millions upon millions of others suffering similarly, Your god is an evil being and should be held accountable for every one of the screams he has caused.

It's better to acknowledge that this is a harsh and godless universe, that cause and effect make our world, and to accept that the actions of a disturbed and evil bitch caused her baby to lie in agony for three weeks before he finally died.

Aldoran I mean no disrespect, but this is where I live. This is what I do, everyday. Not always this horrible but, I see this sort of thing on a daily basis. Did you read anything I had posted? You think I'm somehow disillusioned or mistaken about the reality of this life? I'm the one who is acknowledging that this life is suffering and there is no hope... without Christ! It is you guys who would argue this world has some redeeming value.
I don't know how you could blame God for this atrocity? Do you understand free will?
I would respectively ask that you not put words in my mouth and quote me instead of misquoting my point of view. I never said " suffering is what god wants" or "god knows you'll suffer and he wants it that way".

The fall of man, his separation from God, the entrance of sin, punishment, suffering as a direct result of this event
God wants none to perish, but have everlasting life.
because of his love for us God allows suffering. If you mind was not just blown I'll repeat that statement. Because of his love for us God allows suffering.In that:
Would you be grateful for sight if you didn't have knowledge of being blind? Would you acknowledge the gift of a fully functioning body if you had no idea that it could be decrepit? Would you ever look outside yourself, if all you felt was happiness and joy and knew not pain?

How can you blaspheme God saying he would want this to happen? The truth is that Wayne, spent 7 months in a world ruled by every evil thing the mind of man can come up with. The free will decision of one person took his life and caused him more pain than most of us will ever know.

So what do you have to say about this Aldoran. What is the meaning, the purpose, the end result? I can't imagine what you would answer? How would you console the family? If this life is just a random happening of some cosmic fluke that created life, then the little waynes life had no purpose no ultimate meaning.

He was here for 7 months and witnessed the evil of man. I don't know if you read my last statment about how God treats the innocent children ruined by this world. But in case no one has ever told you about the true hope of humanity let me tell you about God.

God himself shall be with wayne, and be his God. And he will be his son. God shall wipe away all tears from his eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (a variation on Rev 21:4)

I'm sorry you had to witness such atrocity. But, that is the way of the world. Things such as these happen everyday. That is reality. Is this all there is? Is this the best we can hope for?

[Ellanorah]

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[Jim Tressel]

That video is ignorant Ella.  Shame on you.

[Kastil]

"Pink unicorn" is just a euphemism for penis ya know.

[Aldoran]

Pre-warning, those with sandy vaginas need not read this. I hope that my rather inflammatory posts are not being seen as an attack on Unno or anyone else, he's obviously a man of faith and no short pile of theological knowledge. I doubt my posts will make him turn from his god, and I think it's a good thing to ask and answer these questions. As a side note, I respect Unno's work trying to make life a bit more bearable for those who have suffered tragedies and pain, that's good work. I just don't understand the tools in his toolbox.

Except where noted by actual quote box, all quotes in this post are amalgamated from various things said by persons of faith and cannot be attributed to any one person.


Unno, I've read everything you posted, and I don't mean to be an asshole*, but I don't understand your beliefs.

What is the meaning, the purpose, the end result? I can't imagine what you would answer? How would you console the family?

You want to know what purpose, what comfort there is? There isn't one. We live life alone, die alone, and are judged by those who know us. There is no purpose in life or death, which makes the evils men do that much more horrible. It would be easy to say "God is waiting, there's a purpose we cannot see, through a glass darkly" or similar, but that seems a lot like self delusion to me.

I couldn't console a grieving family, except to say the police are working on it, sorry for your loss.

Religion seems to be a warm and fuzzy blanket to most people, they cuddle up inside this cape of self delusion and feel protected from the inhumane and horrible things that go on around them.
It just seems wrong that they say things like "God took them home" and "She's resting with Jesus now" instead of accepting that bad people do bad things, everyone is vulnerable to disease, and drunk driving kills families.

I cannot accept "Magic" as an answer to why life exists, and I cannot accept "God's will is free will, he will judge them" as a poultice on every one of societies horrors.

Help me understand, man. WHY is god necessary? Why do those of faith choose to put everything into that book instead of accepting the cold, miserable reality we're in?

Why not accept that there really is nothing else, this is it, and life is what WE make of it?






*I cannot help it, I don't want to be an asshole, but it's who I am.

[Hawkes]

Jesus Christ... I toitally forgot about this thread and then it's 12 fucking pages long.


The winners wrote the history books and continue to write them.

[Unnormal]

Unno, I've read everything you posted, and I don't mean to be an asshole*, but I don't understand your beliefs.
Your not an asshole you have serious doubts about the existence of God because of your life experience, and what you think God is all about. Don't hold back, let me know what you think. I will certainly do the same for you.

It is hard in this day and age to have a talk, about God and about truth. Because, the world has told you that God is a cartoon character waiting to strike you down and judge you. And people who call themselves Christians have portrayed God as a cartoon character waiting for an opportunity to strike you down and judge you (especially the gays and the liberals). These people know nothing of God. They follow the teachings of man, there hearts are so calloused by the world. That when you even try to bring up the subject of truth they get upset. Because there either to far gone to fairly evaluate reality. Or they're to afraid to acknowledge there own thoughts and think about the meaning of life. You will almost never hear them pore out their hearts in such an honest fashion as this:
You want to know what purpose, what comfort there is? There isn't one. We live life alone, die alone, and are judged by those who know us. There is no purpose in life or death.   When we are at our weakest and loneliness again returns because we know even our closest relationship/marriage does not really know us. Who could know are darkest thoughts, our biggest, fears, or every sin we had ever done. If they did who could love us. Who could love you if they knew every dark, mean thought you had ever had. Especially about them. I think it is fair to say not one person would. Unless there was someone who would look past all that someone who will remember you the way he made you, as an innocent child who was corrupted and robbed of any hope at all by a world full of evil. 

You said to me that you can't understand my belief, but you do understand it so much better than you realize. There is no purpose in life or death. Your right! that is the end result of beliefs void of God! They lack purpose, meaning, fulfillment, hope, joy except what is interjected as substitutes by the world. When you finally realize the truth of God and his word. You have this overwhelming knowledge that this is it! This is what life has been missing all along, this is why I felt so lonely, so lost, so hopeless, this is why every human being has an urge to seek truth! This isn't the hope of some TV evangelist, or the religious doctrine of some bigoted church.  This is the promise of scripture and of all mighty God. That everyone of us has meaning, a purpose, and is loved.
You have to know there is more out there than loneliness and meaninglessness. Your very consciousness testifies to it. People spend there whole lives, working, or chasing tail, or whatever they do to try to legitimize themselves, to find that meaning.



Religion seems to be a warm and fuzzy blanket to most people, they cuddle up inside this cape of self delusion and feel protected from the inhumane and horrible things that go on around them I think it is quite the opposite. It is like being stripped naked and finally accepting and learning about things that most people don't even want to think about. There is a war going on for the souls of men. As people lay literally dying in the streets without hope without meaning. We are the intercessors. The light of the world, the salt of the earth. We are out in the streets, and ghettos, and homeless shelters and third world countries. We created hospitals. We spend our lives desperately trying to reach people, a life of service and hardship. I don't know where the fuzzy blanket comes in, but if I find one I'll make sure to pass it along to those less fortunate.

It just seems wrong that they say things like "God took them home" and "She's resting with Jesus now" instead of accepting that bad people do bad things, everyone is vulnerable to disease, and drunk driving kills families. Exactly, free will, evil, sin, murder, pestilence I could make the list but I think at this point you could make it better than me. Every one will experience these things. Especially Christians as we who have understanding, need to be afflicted so that we can be examples of how to live. "God took them home" ya thats a religious platitude rendered impotent and meaningless. Perhaps it should be replaced with God always has and always will keep his promises.

I cannot accept "Magic" as an answer to why life exists lol I love your use of the word magic. But I have to ask what is the alternative? Aliens seeding life on this planet, cells being formed by crystals? Perhaps we should replace magic, with miracle.

Help me understand, man. WHY is god necessary? Why do those of faith choose to put everything into that book instead of accepting the cold, miserable reality we're in? Why not accept that there really is nothing else, this is it, and life is what WE make of it? Because I know the truth.

Aldoran I appreciate your kind words to me, but I'm not worthy of any praise for my actions. I'm a sinner, unworthy to speak the name of God, undeserving of forgiveness, I don't deserve to be a servant in my fathers house. Yet he calls me son. He is the only one worthy of praise. As far as my knowledge or ability to argue theology. He made a promise to us, who were about to go out and suffer for the cause of Christ. Those of us going out into a evil world to tell people about hope.
Luke 21:14-15  So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves. For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

[Ellanorah]

That video is ignorant Ella.  Shame on you.

i was trying to bring some silly to this thread.....