Swearing an Oath

[thrun]

I wonder if he was taught or teaches that the universe is infinite as well

We should try and catch him red hainded!

In all seriousness in the context I was talking about I don't think it is unfair to call the universe infinite.

We have observations that say that the radius of curvature of the Universe is bigger than 70 billion light years. But the observations allow for either a positive or negative curvature, and this range includes the flat Universe with infinite radius of curvature. The negatively curved space is also infinite in volume even though it is curved. So we know empirically that the volume of the Universe is more than 20 times bigger than volume of the observable Universe. Since we can only look at small piece of an object that has a large radius of curvature, it looks flat. The simplest mathematical model for computing the observed properties of the Universe is then flat Euclidean space. This model is infinite, but what we know about the Universe is that it is really big.  http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/HGTTG.html

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html#RB

[Jim Tressel]

I have a question for everyone.  We were talking and somehow we started talking about when you have to swear an oath we use a bible.  What if you are of a different faith?  Do that make islamic terrorists use a bible?

Off-topic much?

[thrun]

I have a question for everyone.  We were talking and somehow we started talking about when you have to swear an oath we use a bible.  What if you are of a different faith?  Do that make islamic terrorists use a bible?

Off-topic much?

Reptoid!

[meowcow]

Not sure if i can add to much that hasnt been said, but I'll try.
                                "ahem"
If God is love, and love is blind, is Ray Charles God?

[thrun]

Not sure if i can add to much that hasnt been said, but I'll try.
                                "ahem"
If God is love, and love is blind, is Ray Charles God?

No Lemmy is. 

[Nightstalker]

In all seriousness in the context I was talking about I don't think it is unfair to call the universe infinite.

Oh really? lol yeah?

So now you are going to go on some crackpot's notion that the universe is infinite? even in light of the successfully proven model of explosion from the singularity?

And you want to question the concept of an eternal creator, when you support the idea of immeasurable space?

Anyone? Hypocrite? Beuller? Anyone?

[ch0wdah]

Seriously, is there actual sex in softcore that they're just not showing us?  Or is that a harder quest to answer than "is the universe finite" or "is God real?"  You motherfuckers are reall good at selectively staying on topic.  Speaking of, if I declared my religion as Jedi, could I swear an oath on a Timothy Zahn novel?

[Unnormal]

Wow I was in town today form 8am to 11pm and I missed a lot and I'm dead tired, But I was thinking about it and I wanted to make one thing very clear to everyone.
I'm by no means, trying to prove the bible via contemporary knowledge. In fact the exact opposite I'm trying to validate contemporary knowledge via the Bible. Any assertions of bias on that point are absolutely true. Christians have always lived by faith and not by sight. E.G.

When scientific Theory was that the Universe itself was eternal. Christians stood by their belief in spite of the "knowledge" of the time.

Pre 1927 when critics said the Biblical prophets knew nothing of modern society. Talking about how diverse and wide spread or culture was across the globe. Criticizing verses in the bible talking about the entire world physically watching certain events at the same time. That would be an impossibility due to the number of the population alone . Until 1927 the creation of the television and later the internet.

Who would have thought, that the Jews who were scattered across Europe and the world. Would return to their homeland inhabited by people who hated them and resurrect history's only example of a dead language brought back to life Hebrew. Just as for told.
 Even more so from Isaiah 66 :
Who has ever seen anything as strange as this?
  Who ever heard of such a thing?
Has a nation ever been born in a single day?
  Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment?
That happened May 14, 1948.

ect.. ect.. I could go on but I'll hold it for now


Aldoran, while your view of hatred for religion is obviously deeply ingrained. I would submit to you that any belief system, used by men (who are inherently sinful by nature post fall.). Is used for power, greed, and ultimately the suppression or murder of "common" people.   E.G. The current Communist body count is estimated: 149,469,610 to date. Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot... you get the idea. Thats why with any belief system including Christianity you have to look at what they believe and why without letting evil people distort the message. example: Now someone get Thrun and Jt a 5 gallon bucket there going to shit their pants. THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO (read it if you haven't, isn't very long) is a good idea, IF you lived in a society full of moral, selfless people who all had the same belief system. Which will never exist on earth.

I want you to answer a question for me. When you die one of two things are going to happen. You, as in your consciousness is going to either cease to exist or change. Both of which are incomprehensible in our physical state. Let me know what you believe is going to happen and why?

[Unnormal]

gr0n I love this:
"As a species we have an incessant desire to understand everything around us"
That is absolutely true. Scripture tells us we have that desire so we will see the work of God's hand and know him. I, like many other people before me believe that science especially on today's level is the embodiment of that desire. And we have found creation more amazing and delicate than we can possibly comprehend.

I think it would be beyond Irony that a series of random events and mutations ended up with conscious beings that demand to know where they came from and why instead of being driven by only instinct.

[Unnormal]

"Why is your God the Truth and not Odin or Allah?  I can quote from the Koran or Prose Edda if you'd like, they are holy books as well.  Why dont' you use either of them to define your beliefs?"

Thrun, I think you should evaluate any belief systems you believe are possibly true, as I did. I think you will find them lacking in a multitude of areas, as I did. Feel free to ask me about any of them. When you find scripture and the one true God of the Bible. It is vastly vastly different. I recognize it is a hard thing to do in this time, because there is so much "stuff" out there. Thats what my first post was all about. In fact the Bible tells us that no man comes to the Father on his own he has to be called. Because it takes faith. Just like we have been discussing nothing is for certain not in science and not in our existence thats what faith is all about.
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."-2 Peter 3:9

Just for fun in case you actually decide to look into belief systems or anyone for that matter. I'll list the criteria I used for initially evaluating them.

1. it has to answer all the big questions in life (and after life given the belief)
2. It has to bear good fruit. a.k.a. what are the results of the belief system.
3. It has to correspond to reality, not just scientific but what you know to be true from your own existence.
4. It shouldn't hinder others in searching for truth / declare anyone who doesn't believe like they do needs to die.
5. Any prophecies of the future have to be fulfilled. (not that all prophecy has been fulfilled but the track record so to speak.)

[Paul]

Religion is the single greatest threat to humanity we've ever come up with. It has been used as a tool of manipulation, excuse for bigotry and hate, and rallying point for the attempted extermination of huge sectors of the human population. People have used religion to condone ignorance, intolerance, barbarism, xenophobia, and war for profit, and that's just what I've seen this year.

i don't think it is fair to accuse religion of that unless the specific religion promotes that. While some religions say its OK to kill under certain circumstances, (for instance if you leave the faith of Islam your likely to get your head sawed off BY YOUR OWN FAMILY).  Of course there is corruption in religions just like there is in EVERYTHING. No where in the bible does it "condone ignorance, intolerance, barbarism, xenophobia, and war for profit."

Even if you accept that "god" is real and that "god" created everything, you still have to question WHY these things are, and then question WHY worship this being.

would you prefer not existing? I've concluded that life is a gift, and choose to worship god out of free will. And "if you accept that "god " is real and that he created everything," i would say that god would be deserving of worship, wouldn't you?

i also find it strange that you find that believing in a creator as being "illogical" as if we believed in god because were stupid idiots who caunt use aour stoopid idout braiins, considering you have no explanation yourself yet choose to try and defame creationist as being "fucking stupid."As Christians we do not blindly believe our faith, we have the bible which is testament to our faith, it is the repository of what we believe and why.

[Ellanorah]

thrun- God is OUR God...and this is where it fasinates me the most....we don't know the begining of Gods....
but, we have the potential to become Gods...
it is an eternal principle

everyone else-
but basically i don't see the point of arguing about religion on the internet...
I like to learn about different beliefs etc, if only to better understand how mine differ.
I have no problem with people believing what they want, or not believing, whatever the case may be.  I just dont want people to make fun of me, belittle my beliefs, try to tell me how wrong I am, telling me my beliefs are based on falicy etc, because i try not to do the same.
Things I believe, my relationship with God, is for ME and it is a very personal thing. I'm happy to answer questions, as long as people really want the answers.
all beliefs should be personal. 
I'm mormon, or should i say a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints (www.lds.org   -->>if you wanna find some stuff) yes we have missonaries to teach people who want to learn about us.
But as I said, i dont think a gaming forum is the place to discuss beliefs, other than beliefs like "i believe blizzard nerfed my class because....." "i believe the expansion is going to...." etc....

[Ellanorah]

I have a question for everyone.  We were talking and somehow we started talking about when you have to swear an oath we use a bible.  What if you are of a different faith?  Do that make islamic terrorists use a bible?

to answer this

muslins swear on the Koran, jews on the Torah.

[Paul]

thrun- God is OUR God...and this is where it fasinates me the most....we don't know the begining of Gods....
but, we have the potential to become Gods...
it is an eternal principle

everyone else-
but basically i don't see the point of arguing about religion on the internet...
I like to learn about different beliefs etc, if only to better understand how mine differ.
I have no problem with people believing what they want, or not believing, whatever the case may be.  I just dont want people to make fun of me, belittle my beliefs, try to tell me how wrong I am, telling me my beliefs are based on falicy etc, because i try not to do the same.
Things I believe, my relationship with God, is for ME and it is a very personal thing. I'm happy to answer questions, as long as people really want the answers.
all beliefs should be personal. 
I'm mormon, or should i say a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints (www.lds.org   -->>if you wanna find some stuff) yes we have missonaries to teach people who want to learn about us.
But as I said, i dont think a gaming forum is the place to discuss beliefs, other than beliefs like "i believe blizzard nerfed my class because....." "i believe the expansion is going to...." etc....

its in the open discussion section, from the the looks of it this is more of a discussion than an argument, I don't think anyone will make fun of your beliefs. Not questioning and not challenging what you believe is a dangerous game, no matter what you believe.

[thrun]

Oh really? lol yeah?

So now you are going to go on some crackpot's notion that the universe is infinite? even in light of the successfully proven model of explosion from the singularity?

And you want to question the concept of an eternal creator, when you support the idea of immeasurable space?

Anyone? Hypocrite? Beuller? Anyone?

Jesus fucking christ I had almost forgotten why people call you Nighttroll.

However, the results of the WMAP mission and observations of distant supernova have suggested that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating which implies the existence of a form of matter with a strong negative pressure, such as the cosmological constant. This strange form of matter is also sometimes referred to as the "dark energy". If dark energy in fact plays a significant role in the evolution of the universe, then in all likelihood the universe will continue to expand forever.

http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html

It is uncertain whether the size of the Universe is finite or infinite

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe

You have to read the whole thing on these links

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html

http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/the-universe/infinite-universe/

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,909029,00.html