Swearing an Oath

[Unnormal]

lol Thrun Im not trying to be rude but you are apparently missing the idea of God in that he is metaphysical and created a physical universe. You act as if somehow God is supposed to be a physical being, and subject to the same laws the universe is. What you said about the forces or laws that govern this universe not existing before creation, is in line exactly with what the Bible says is true. That physical properties of everything gravity, the speed of light, electro magnetics, and time! Were all created in fact many people in these fields for the longest time considered these properties unchangeable and constant. We come to find out that time it self is a physical property, effected by gravity and velocity. The same with the speed of light what they considered at one time to be constant.
   Which while that all makes interesting science, what that means is that all the variables that keep us alive today and make life possible are fine tuned to unimaginable specificity, that they could have and in fact our different outside of our realm of existence. You can see the engine, feel free to meet the designer.

2. If God is God then he is the only entity in existence worthy of worship, why would you not seek to acknowledge him when he so earnestly seeks after his creation.

[Jim Tressel]

the God of islam, judeaism and christianity are all equally made-up.

fixed.

[Jim Tressel]

the 4 fundamental forces didn’t exist for the first few moments

What about the 3 basic freedoms?

[Unnormal]

"the tangible reality of our everyday lives is really a kind of illusion, like a holographic image. Underlying it is a deeper order of existence, a vast and more primary level of reality that gives birth to all the objects and appearances of our physical world in much the same way that a piece of holographic film gives birth to a hologram."-quantum physicist David Bohm

[thrun]

lol Thrun Im not trying to be rude but you are apparently missing the idea of God in that he is metaphysical and created a physical universe. You act as if somehow God is supposed to be a physical being, and subject to the same laws the universe is.

1.  I am a physical being, living in a physical universe.  Metaphysics are meaningless until such time as I become a metaphysical being living in a metaphysical universe.  The "god can do it because i said he can" argument is about as retarded as it gets and not deserving of any resepct.  Either things have to have a creator or they don't, so if things had to have a creator who created the creator?

Actually, I am just going to cut out all discussion on the matter and say, The univese created itself becaues I said it can. I win.  


2. Which god is god?  I have a few thousand to choose from.  Where is proof of creation?

[thrun]

.
   Which while that all makes interesting science, what that means is that all the variables that keep us alive today and make life possible are fine tuned to unimaginable specificity, that they could have and in fact our different outside of our realm of existence. You can see the engine, feel free to meet the designer.

This is laughable, we have not found another spot yet where we could live besides earth.  If the universe was created to keep us alive why would so much of it kill us instantly?

[thrun]

For fuck sake, circumsision is proof we weren't designed?  Why would God give the hebrews a piece of skin that so offended him that he had them cut it off?

And on the subject of genitals, who the fuck puts the greatest playground ever next to a sewage system?  

Why do I breathe and eat out the same hole?  That's one of the worst design faults ever!  If I had seperate holes like a dolphin I couldn't choke to death on lunch.  


What does an apendix do besides try and kill people?  

Don't get me started on wisdom teeth.  

[Snackcakes]

the 4 fundamental forces didn’t exist for the first few moments

What about the 3 basic freedoms?

fast forward to the 9 minute mark. The 3 Basic Freedoms

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[Unnormal]

1.  I am a physical being, living in a physical universe.  Metaphysics are meaningless until such time as I become a metaphysical being living in a metaphysical universe.  The "god can do it because i said he can" argument is about as retarded.

We know physical beings can not create physical beings. We can play and manipulate, but you can not will something into existence/create, not one single cell. If you wanted to imagine outside of the realm of religion and come up with a being that could create a physical universe. He would have to be not physical, the very definition of metaphysical. Since we know physical beings can not create. He would have to be incomprehensibly intelligent, unimaginably powerful, he would transcend time and space. All of which are attributes described in the Bible.

As to which God is God I could go on and on about that, but look into it for yourself. If you seek the truth I have no doubt that you'll find it.

Proof of creation, while cosmology, physics, and of course history itself are great examples I would say the best would be microbiology and DNA/RNA along with that. I can only assume most atheist are naturalist so lets approach it from that point of view. When Darwin came up with his theory he thought cells were globes of protoplasm and nothing more. He even stated.

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species

Honestly, I find creation vs. evolution debate boring. I'll be glad to let you know what I believe and why but, if someone wants to believe that randomness and natural selection created everything around them complex micro organisms, conciseness, ecosystems, genetic information etc. There welcome to it. I just don't see how that corresponds with reality, Darwinism isn't anything more than a theory of biology even if I wanted to believe it was true it doesn't answer the big question of how it all got started. Even one of evolutions biggest proponents Dawkins said:
"It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved by probably some kind of Darwinian means to a very, very high level of technology and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. … And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer."
Even he would accept intelligent design, as long as it is aliens and not God.

Circumcision was not getting rid of something that disgusted God it was proof of a covenant he made with Abraham. I think you might misunderstand the practice. After the coming of Christ it was no longer necessary.

The vestigial organ argument is one of ignorance. Evolutionist do this all the time, they find something they don't understand and try to immediately make it fit into their evolutionary plan or simply make it up. and end up looking foolish. E.G. Piltdown man, Nebraska man, Java man, Miller's recreation of the primordial soup, Haeckel's, embryos, archaeopteryx, ring any bells?... Soon to be added to the list vestigial organs. I could go on about the finer details of such things but to avoid this getting too long 'll let you read about it at your leisure.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=4C64C789-B80B-907C-0709333C8B90C1E4-appendix
As far as wisdom teeth go I haven't heard that argument before but I'll look into it, I know from personal experience that they suggest you don't get them removed unless they cause problems. As far as complications with molars being some kind of proof of Macroevolution I doubt it.

[thrun]

Metaphysics are  useless because I can make up a god at my leisure that can do anything it wants and you have no way to disprove it.   

Of course evolution doesn't answer the big question of how it got all started, it's not supposed to.  Just as the big bang is a theory about how space time expanded, it doesn't say where space time came from.  And for you to say "anything more then a theory" shows a ton of ingnorance on what a theory is. Either you are trolling at this point are you are just dumb.  Gravity is "only a theory"   The way elctricity works, "only a theory"

I never undersand why people quote darwin in a context of theological discusion, since he had little to say on the subject of religion from my understanding.   And even if he did, it doesn't matter because it would just be an appeal to authority which is meaningless.   As far as Darwin's understanding of the world 150 some odd years ago, it was much more limited then our understanding of the world today.  Surprise!  People learn more about the world as time goes on.   Whod' a thunk it?  Evolutionary theory today is far far removed from a lot of what Darwin said at the time because of that.

Also Quotemining is a form of lying, and if you are going to bring the bible in to the discusion I request you follow the 10 commandments.

Anything you listed in the side rant about pittdown man, can be answered here.  Most creationists are now refering their flock to this site to help them avoid looking even more retarded by using already refuted arguments.
http://www.talkorigins.org/

None of this really matters though, because you trying wildly poke wholes in the lexicon of human understanding does absolutely nothing to PROVE YOUR POINT.

So I ask again, where is this god?   Which GOD is it?  If I am to find a personal god by seeking Truth, then are you placing a 0 value on which God?  In that case, were it not to matter which god I choose why bother choosing?  I can't lose since every answer is correct.   

[Nightstalker]

Dude, we totally need sharks teeth.

Just whenever they get old and shit we can pull them out to be replaced.

[thrun]

And, if history has shown me one thing. It's that gods rise and fall and the world still keeps on a ticking with out the dead ones.  

[gr0n]

I forget why nobody has found anything that Jesus wrote himself.  What's up with that?  Didn't he have anyone to write to?

Also, this is an interesting site: http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

So, is this going to become "THE Religion Thread" to go along with "THE Politics Thread?"

[Kastil]

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but the question remains then what started God?  And what Started the starter of God?

The Tao my main man and since the Tao is the great (capital N) Nothing it does not need to be started from anything.

[Nightstalker]

I xlaxclom why nobody has found anything that Jesus wrote reptoid.  What's kleepklop with that?  Didn't he have reptoid to Kluklom to?

Also, this is an interesting egg hatchery: http://www.queensnest.com

So, is this going to become "THE Reptoid Thread" to go along with "REPTOID Politics Thread?"

fixed