Change.gov

[Varg]

Take a look at this. Pretty cool. Read the different section under agenda to get there specific plan:
http://change.gov/

[thrun]

I think it's interesting that Joe the plummer was concerned about Obama's tax plan, was Joe planning in shipping jobs overseas?

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States,

[Jim Tressel]

Wow.  An organized, determined, focused, planned, and well thought-out Presidency.  What a nutty concept. 

[Gristle]

Haven't heard a President-elect speech yet that I didn't like.

I want to see results, not more blowhard "I'm gonna change the world" liberal bullshit.  I see enough of that on cnn.com.

Bookmarked for future reference...say 6 months.

[Jim Tressel]

So now changing the world is liberal too?  Wow, being a liberal sounds better and better each day!

[Gristle]

Yes, "changing the world" has long been rhetoric with the liberals.  Don't you remember all the free love hippy communes back in the 70s?

Of course it was STDs and Drugs that they changed the world with...but hey that goes along party lines too!

PS:  You should remember all this, you just turned like 40...I saw the Happy Bday thread you old bastard.

[Gristle]

Labor
Obama and Biden will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama and Biden will ensure that his labor appointees support workers' rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers. Obama and Biden will also increase the minimum wage and index it to inflation to ensure it rises every year.

Ensure Freedom to Unionize: Obama and Biden believe that workers should have the freedom to choose whether to join a union without harassment or intimidation from their employers. Obama cosponsored and is strong advocate for the Employee Free Choice Act, a bipartisan effort to assure that workers can exercise their right to organize. He will continue to fight for EFCA's passage and sign it into law.
Fight Attacks on Workers' Right to Organize: Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor of legislation to overturn the NLRB's "Kentucky River" decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction, and professional workers as "supervisors" who are not protected by federal labor laws.
Protect Striking Workers: Obama and Biden support the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. They will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods.
Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.


Holy shit, I love this part.  UNIONS, what a great fucking idea!  Let's promote and support your local union boys and girls.

I mean, christ!  What a grand idea.  Look what it did for the steel mills and auto industries!

There was a time and place for Unions, and it is long past.  Unions are a parasite for this country.

[JesterDTM]

Unions, you're path to higher prices!

What no one realizes, it is a death spiral. Employees make more, companies raise prices, this causes inflation, and bam we do it all again the next year, all so we can feel good about raises every year, so we can afford the higher prices, so we can get raises, so we can afford higher prices, OH wait, then when you complain that prices are too high, we ship the jobs over seas to make the stuff cheaper to lower prices, and we complain about the low priced stuff completing with UNION job stuff and we get raises to buy the union stuff, and then we raise prices......

BTW, the best job security.. Be valuable to you company, do a good job, and show up on time. If you can't do all those three, you probably need a union.

[Nightstalker]

BTW, the best job security.. Be valuable to you company, do a good job, and show up on time. If you can't do all those three, you probably need a union.

A-fucking-men

[Unnormal]

Unions, you're path to higher prices!

Preach Jester, not to mention Do you think that these CEO's and rich assholes are going to throw up the white flag when Obama jacks up their taxes. "Well Obama is president so I guess I have to take a pay cut." There just going to pass that shit on to the consumers. What is raise the price of goods happening?

[Jim Tressel]

BTW, the best job security.. Be valuable to you company, do a good job, and show up on time. If you can't do all those three, you probably need a union.

You're probably right.  Unions were created to protect people who don't do good jobs and don't show up on time.  This is a flatly ignorant thing to say. 

I wish I could break the world into black and white absolutism's as well.

[Unnormal]

Aww JT, He didn't say every Union member don't do good jobs, and don't show up on time. He just said if you want job security thats what you do.

On the other hand I will be happy to say that the majority of Union workers get away with shit they wouldn't if it was an un-unionized work force. My Dad works at a place that the Union basically runs that shit and he is forced to be a part of it pay dues ect... He could go on all day about how the Union has mucked shit up.

IMO there not all bad but if you look at the history of Union creation and the pro's and con's, I would say it is clear that a Union is nothing but a bunch of bloated bureaucratic BS.  If your being payed unfair wages, or in intolerable work conditions organize a strike or hire a lawyer. You don't need to pay some asshole to do it for you.

You got employers worrying about profitability= Quality, efficiency, the cost of raw materials, the cost of utilities, the stability of the market. You got union's worried about one thing and one how much money they think they deserve.

Look at the collapsing auto industry, they have to pay some high school educated guy 40$/hr to inspect widgets. Tell me that unions don't have a hand in their demise?

[JesterDTM]

[/quote]
You're probably right.  Unions were created to protect people who don't do good jobs and don't show up on time.  This is a flatly ignorant thing to say. 
[/quote]

I don't believe it is an ignorant thing to say at all. I clearly do not believe that all, or even many union members are this way. I do however think that it is a security blanket for those who do.
And yes, higher wages lead to higher prices, leading to the need for higher wages.

Unions were created in a time when there was no government oversight of employer's. I have union and non union employees working for me. Our non union hourly employees receive better pay, and benifits then they would if they unionized. (they would have to take a $1 an hour paycut)

My opinion is that for the most part, with a few exceptions, unions have served their purpose and are no longer required. And if left in place will send all work over seas or we won't be able to afford anything in this country.

[Jim Tressel]

The implication was that Unions exist as a shelter for tardy, sub-par, invaluable workers.

Are Unions a perfect solution?  Nope.  Are they big and fat and bureaucratic and clumsy and corrupt?  Sure.  I grew up in Dayton where a lot of my friends had union parents working for GM.  I heard plenty of bitching about the UAW there.  My uncle has been a Teamster for decades and he's told me dozens of stories about guys being put in the hospital when they didn't tow the union line.  Do unions provide a security blanket for some lazy people?  Yup, but so does unemployment.

The argument that unions contribute to higher prices is semi-valid.  Which comes first, the cart or the horse?  If a company is paying their employees unfairly, is that OK because you and I get to reap the benefits of cheaper prices?  If a company is forced to pay their employees decent wages, is it OK for them to jack up prices so they don't take a hit on the bottom line?  I understand that's how capitalism works, but this comes down to a moral dilemma.  Companies are in business to make money.  People work to be able to afford a living.  My point is that it's a lot more complicated than "Unions are bad".  I'm just glad I don't have to be the one making the call.

[JesterDTM]

JT I think I agree with your whole post. I did not mean to imply that unions exist as a shelter, just that it is a side effect.

I have been a union employee, a government employee, and now a now union employee. I think I have a pretty rounded view of the work environment. And my point is, no matter what your work situation, if you are of value, and reliable, that is the path to promotion, and raises.

Unions are not bad, and in some cases very necessary. I think that we are so raise driven, that we are hurting ourselves in the long run.