Wolverines

I came into work to a near fist fight.

The psycho secretary calling for impeachment and a therapist replying "My sister needs this insurance she don't work!" to which someone said "then she needs to get off her lazy fucking ass and get a job" to which the therapist replied "She gots diabetes!"

OK What I want to know is how Kithari and I can get on this government dole this broad is on.

DiabetES?

http://wbd.ytmnd.com/

Sam im going to give you some of my diabetes!

I'm sorry Dia-bee-tus iz serious bizness. I am sure that it's hard to hold a job, eat properly, and take your insulin.

Yeah, I had my one coworker go on a tirade about this already.  No where in his rambling incoherent response did he even come close to anything that resembled a complete answer.

He sited Germany's healthcare (which is amazing) as a reason why this was going to end poorly, Canada as well.  He realized those were horrible examples for his case after about 5 minutes. I've omitted the first 200 or so lines that involved everything from pearl harbor to Iraq.





Craig: Germany, Canada
 
me: our healthcare bill is nothing like what canada has  
let me check on germany

Craig: germany's has been going since 1883  
so they have a lot of practice

me: I guess I am still digging to find how germany's healthcare has doomed their nation
 
Craig: then you have Japan, Israel, Saudi, Pakistan, India, Hong Kong, Thailand, Mexico, Greenland, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, etc.  
like i said theirs has been going on since 1883 so i guess they have there's ironed out
so in a 127 years Obama care may be okay
 
me: k, well I am not going to consider thailand, mexico and really India in any quality of life arguments since we all know they are shit holes

Craig: this is true
 
me: columbia really to
I mean these are 2nd world  
I guess sort of 1st
 
Craig: i see something here  
they are all shit holes and use gov't health care  
aren't we above that
 
me: europe uses it to

Craig: shouldn't we be able to figure something a little better
 
me: and generally the quality of life there is pretty good  
yeah, we should go with a european system for sure  
since generally they are socially ahead of us by about 10 years  
so we are in agreement then!
let's go with something similar to germany's system  
of government insurance with a private optoin  
oh wait....
 
Craig: i care if we modify what we have or change things but not a complete overhaul
look at the shear numbers
 
me: I'm pretty sure this isn't a complete overhaul

Craig: gettin coffee

oh forgot to add... in before nightstalker!

He's updating the manifesto.

He's the new bevets. 

OMG HEALTHCARE REFORM!  

I won't hear any more arguments against healthcare reform.  It was so neutered by big pharma and health insurance lobbyists that it's pretty fucking far from "socialized" medicine.  It does some really great things, but it's not half as progressive as THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY would like.  

Additionally, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office numbers indicate that it will operate with a SURPLUS!  That means it will not only NOT add to the deficit, but actually REDUCE the deficit!  If you only listen to right wing a-holes...the same right wing a-holes that championed $2,000,000,000,000 worth of unfunded tax cut and medicare bills under Bush, you're probably completely in the dark on these facts.

So in summary:
1) You still have your guns (so please stop shooting policemen)
2) Your taxes went down (unless you're filthy rich, which you're not)
3) The economy hasn't completely fallen apart (though all signs point to the banks going back to their old tricks with no real reform to the regulatory process)
4) WWIII hasn't started...yet (not until Iran nukes Israel)
5) Healthcare reform is going to help the economy instead of bankrupt it and won't force you to commit suicide (don't listen to John Boehner, he's a lying scumbag)
6) We have a timetable to get out of Iraq (for better or worse, at least our boys won't be dying there anymore)
7) More troops have been sent to Afghanistan (though Bin Laden is probably in Pakistan)
8.) We're bombing the fuck out of Pakistan (and who doesn't like a good Predator missile attack?)
9) We're no longer illegally torturing detainees (though we are still illegally detaining them)
10) Gay people will soon no longer have to lie to keep their jobs in the military (though state employees in VA can now legally be fired for being gay, thanks to Governor McDonnell)
11) We are far less despised by the rest of the civilized world than we were 14 months ago (except for the Pakistanis, who are sick of us blowing up their weddings)
12) Sarah Palin has a best-selling book (despite being full of the mindless drivel of the least-effective orator since Helen Keller)


So I ask those of you on the right: What's the next issue that will paralyze you with irrational fear? (other than gays in the military, of course)

only time will tell......hopefully SOMETHING works for a change....instead of a lot of the talk that rarely leads to results.

Why are gay people even a fucking issue for anything? I'm no queer but I could give two fucks if they serve in the military or get married. Lighten up people!

All I want is the government to pay for my bitches abortions.....I LIKE TO PUSH IT RAW MUTHAFUKKAZ

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/

but....but....that says nothing will change?!????!!eleven?

Liars! I am joining Nights militia....you guys are no good trixsters

"Why are gay people even a fucking issue for anything?"

2 words: tribal superstition (aka: religion)

...and since you mentioned gay marriage, here's something for the bible-bangers who pick and choose from the "Good Book" to support their prejudices:


[yt=425,350]OFkeKKszXTw[/yt]

the graphic of the rapist made me LOL

Sited? lawl.

Since we live in the entitlement era, you might be able to ask daddy government for some freebies so you can finish your inner-city education.

Just sayin'


Stay in school kids.... (private school that is)

I keep forgetting that forums are formal writing, thanks for reminding me. 

Fixed.


I think that should be covered in your Good Citizen's Social Field Manual on uh... page 6 I think it was.

YES WE CAN!!

Mmm mmm mmm, Barack Hussein Obama

Guys this thread was so active earlier, now that i'm here to respond you are not posting your pro reform stances?

Are you guys supporting a bill which will have the government post responses for you?

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XivNwQ76mCs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XivNwQ76mCs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]


Alright that just about does it for this message. Should I ask Obama to press the "Post" button for me, or what?

Nah fuck it, I can do shit on my own, so I'll just press it myself.

Grammar, capitalization, and punctuation fail.


Furthermore, your "response" has been spell-checking and grammar correction.  Trust me when I say that isn't a fight you want to pick.  You don't have an argument worth touting, so you've reduced yourself to trite nitpicking.  Try again later, or better yet, don't.

Gee, I'm glad you were smart enough to point out the obvious intent (though a comma is not required after "Guys")...


"No, the cites is not for formalitiez!!"


Weeeeaaahiiiii!!!!!!!1

http://i.imgur.com/590Ev.png

(http://i.imgur.com/590Ev.png)

"Bible" denotes a specific book. Revise this fail.

Stay in school kids!

You fucked your quote tag up son. 

I think the only one qualified to call anyone "son" is Barack, since he is the one giving out stuffies now.


Lets all give it up for the "Pro-Choice" political party, which just liquidated our "Pro-Choice" Right to choose not to buy without paying a penalty!!

Hur-rah! Hur-rah for liberty!

You won't be happy till you have a government official inside your houses, telling you how to breathe.

damnit thrun, beat me to the pic post. +1

(http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs411.snc3/24836_1398553372160_1482057781_31032275_3557227_n.jpg).

Maybe the women, but we all know most republican men secretly crave large black cock.

...still waiting for a legitimate response.

I'm still waiting for armageddon

If night doesn't post a legit response, I threaten to change his user group to Grammar Nazi.

/overpowered

I'm still waiting for 2 bottles of Jack Daniels.

I'm still waiting for some one special to come along and mend my broken heart. 

A legit response to? ....

You tell me.  You haven't made any points, but you claim you're "here to respond".  It seems more like you're "here to be an ass-clown".

Health Insurers cannot deny children health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. A ban on the discrimination in adults will take effect in 2014.

Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering up to 50% of employee premiums.

Seniors will get a rebate to fill the so-called "donut hole" in Medicare drug coverage, which severely limits prescription medication coverage expenditures over $2,700. As of next year, 50 percent of the donut hole will be filled.

The cut-off age for young adults to continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance rises to the age 27.

Lifetime caps on the amount of insurance an individual can have will be banned. Annual caps will be limited, and banned in 2014.

A temporary high-risk pool will be set up to cover adults with pre-existing conditions. Health care exchanges will eliminate the program in 2014.

New plans must cover checkups and other preventative care without co-pays. All plans will be affected by 2018

Insurance companies can no longer cut someone when he or she gets sick.

Insurers must now reveal how much money is spent on overhead.

Any new plan must now implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.

This tax will impose a ten percent tax on indoor tanning services. This tax, which replaced the proposed tax on cosmetic surgery, would be effective for services on or after July 1, 2010.

New screening procedures will be implemented to help eliminate health insurance fraud and waste.

Medicare payment protections will be extended to small rural hospitals and other health care facilities that have a small number of Medicare patients.

Non-profit Blue Cross organizations will be required to maintain a medical loss ratio -- money spent on procedures over money incoming -- of 85 percent or higher to take advantage of IRS tax benefits.

Chain restaurants will be required to provide a "nutrient content disclosure statement" alongside their items. Expect to see calories listed both on in-store and drive-through menus of fast-food restaurants sometime soon.

The bill establishes a temporary program for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55‐64 in order to help reduce the often-expensive cost of that coverage.

The Secretary of Health and Human Services will set up a new Web site to make it easy for Americans in any state to seek out affordable health insurance options The site will also include helpful information for small businesses.

A two‐year temporary credit (up to a maximum of $1 billion) is in the bill to encourage investment in new therapies for the prevention and treatement of diseases.

So what's the spread on how long it's going to take before we find an instance of the Government spending money for preemptive care on someone who has been dead for several months?
I mean how can you expect the Government, especially the IRS who is to be in charge of this, to run something of this magnitude?  We're talking about the same folks who were able to take my tax rebate last year to pay for Federal school loans I was *ahem*defaulting*ahem* on but who had my address as some place I have not lived at for 7 years.  I've changed addresses 3 times since then, filed 2 W-4's, received 7 Federal tax rebates, changed my DL address twice and even gave them a more current address than the one they had when I filed for a deferment 5 years ago.

p.s. Half this goddamn bill that I've read so far is just referring to other Acts and it still fills up 1018 pages.  They need a more constiuent friendly version that doesn't have you bouncing back and forth to things like the Health Care Quality Improvement Act of 1986 blah blah.

p.p.s  This shit is horrible.

"The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect
 to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed
 the amount which bears the same ratio to the
 amount of tax so imposed (determined without re
gard to this paragraph and after application of para
graph (1)) as—"

Makes me want to stop reading it.

Also it seems if you are from a religion that does not permit health care coverage you will be free from the 2.5% of your gross income (not to exceed the National average premium) fine.

Yes that's right. Even if you don't want their insurance, you still have to pay for it! I LOVE IT!


Calgon, take my choices away!

Here's the kicker: if your employer does not provide health benefits for you they can be charged 8% of each employees yearly income that is unbenefitted.  Luckily if your employer employs less than 10 people they can receive a 50% tax credit for every dollar they spend in insurance compensation per employee up to an average of no less than $5000 and no more than $20000 in compensation.
Above 10 employees the % of tax credit drops and at 25 employees is kaput.

If I was a small business owner with 10 employees or less I would provide the healthcare for the tax credit and then just lower their wages the difference.  That is if I hadn't been providing healthcare before that point.   Of course if I were my employer it would be a toss up between the 8% hit and the bare minimum $2500/year spent to get me health insurance.

Even if your employer opts for the fine it does not exempt you personally from getting insurance and you can also be fined.

I know I know, long read but you should try the actual bill.
http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
 

So your employer will be fined for not providing you insurance, and you the employee, will also be fined for not buying insurance. LMAO!

Yup, unless of course you are a nonresident alien or non-healthcare believing religious sect.  Or live outside the US... they included that one also.

Time to blow off some faces in TF2 to release the reading stress.

I wonder what exactly will happen if someone who has lost their job, or is not working can no longer afford to pay the fine, yet they own assets.

Will the IRS try and seize those owned assets as payment I wonder.


Also, I'm curious which religion atm, if any, does not believe in healthcare. Maybe Scientology...

Its the first time in the history of the USA where the government is requiring you to buy something. Its a pretty big deal. I do not understand it enough to form an solid opinion though. I like boobies.

I also like boobies.  If there was a government mandate for toplessness for all (weather permitting) then I would vote that shit through like insane craziness.

I'm trying to remember the Religion that does not allow for its members to visit modern medical facilities (clinics included).  They had some around where I grew up.  hmmm...  Christian Scientists.

Jehovah's Witness?

Whichever it is, i'm about to become that religion.

I think one could state that even any Christian should be exempt.

Amish, perhaps? also, scientologists don't need health-care, they just have to use their superpowered zenu enlightened brains to heal themselves, that is if they write their checks on time.

That's what i'm thinking, since I recall seeing controvery surrounding Scientology because they were known for not taking people to traditional treatment, resulting in the deaths of people that would have otherwise survived.

I think John Travolta's kid was involved in such a case.

Scientology mainly goes against drugs for the treatment of Psychological disorders.  Mainstream medicine is still ok.   Jehovah's Witnesses are really just against blood transfusions though I believe they still can do plasma.  Christian Scientists only trust healing through prayer so those guys are the way to go.

Of course even if you go this way it doesn't save you from increased taxes.

Varg, the big toss up right now thats being discussed is the Constitutionality of it all.  In the Constitution it states that any power not given to Congress and the Federal Government by the Constitution is solely reserved for the States.  Since no where in there does it give the rights to force citizens to buy any sort of goods or service the arguement is that is a State's right and not the Federal Government's right.  Congress is saying that through the clause that allows them to regulate interstate commerce they can regulate healthcare.   Well that and actually getting a vote in both the House AND the Senate in order for it to pass into law.

I'm just stubborn.  I hate things being forced on me and will balk if someone jerks the reins too hard.  The way this bill was forced through, whether its good or bad, just has me wanting to punch somebody.  So help me if they try this crap with Amnesty I'm moving to Brazil.   You know they have topless beaches and girls there really like pale guys?

 

Ya I know, there's nothing worse then the government forcing me to by grenade launchers they don't even let me use.

Looks like it's time to freshen up the Fishing Boat Crew Roster I had going in the last thread.

I'm curious about something, but feel free to not answer if you aren't comfortable doing so.

Does anyone here not currently have health insurance? 
If you don't, is it because A) You are employed by a business that doesn't provide coverage, B) You have opted out of employer-provided coverage, C) You are unemployed and don't have the extra scratch, or D) You are young and virile and will live forever without medical attention?

These are sincere questions.  Night, please do not hijack this with your ass-clown behavior.

You and others are the one who started this mess with this fucking thread, with the trolling comments.

And you could have left this sentence out, but you are trying to perpetuate shit. Notice how I promptly turned the killswitch off earlier with serious discussion, yet I didnt call for you to end your faggotry as you did?

And the answers to your question are both B and D bitch. Enjoy

Night, you're going to get HPV

I thought I asked you to remove your ass-clown costume.

Employed, have a very expensive health insurance plan for a family of three. I see what your getting at though. If I pay for it anyway why would i care that I i will pay for it in the future no matter what, is the fact that i feel like my rights have been stepped on about this matter worth the suffering of those who cannot afford heathcare when i am fortunate enough to be able to? You have a valid point, and I respect it. I don't think this is a as easy as a "NAH AH / UH HA" argument. Both sides of the fence here have good reasons for supporting it or choosing not to. What kind of heartless person would not want healthcare for those who cannot afford it? What kind of mindless person does not see that individual rights are what makes the US stand out from every other nation today or in all of history and a key component to is successes? Its controversal for a reason, there are supporting well thought out points on either side.

Progress, according to Webster:
3 : gradual betterment; especially : the progressive development of humankind

I dont read that as socialism, its betterment of humanity. The real question is " Are we progressing, or moving backward?" None of us really know. I think we will all have to wait and see.

Thank you for the insightful comments Varg.

I must admit, the mandate has me bothered as well.  My initial reaction was "What the FUCK?!  Now we HAVE to buy something?"  Then I thought a while on it and a couple things came to mind.

1) It is and has been the case for a very long time that anyone, insured or not, must be treated in emergency situations by hospitals.
2) The cost of this care, which is generally higher but even more so for the uninsured since the hospital isn't beholden to the lower rates they've negotiated with insurance companies, might have been avoided through regular, pro-active doctor visits.
3) These costs are absorbed by hospitals (who then raise fees for services for the rest of us) and taxpayers (in the case that the uninsured goes to a government-subsidized caregiver).

Therefore, if we require hospitals and clinics to treat the uninsured and we require everyone to pick up the tab, it's not all that unreasonable to expect the people who have access to a service (everyone) to pay toward that service.  You can always not buy insurance and pay the fine, which you could justify as the cover-charge for your eventual emergency room visit.

The only other option then is don't have a mandate and don't allow the uninsured (or at least those who can't afford to pay cash) access to medical treatment in an emergency.  That's a bit inhumane, but it also solves the dilemma.

No American enjoys being told they HAVE to buy something.  We're a nation founded on telling authority to fuck off.  However, I struggle to conjure another strategy that pays the bills and ensures care for everyone.

Good point JT. I actually work in a hospital and am all to familiar with how that works. What a lot of people don't think about as well, is that if a person does not have health insurance, and they have a bad cold or something they need a persciption for, the will go the ER knowing they will be seen. This is bad because it slows down the ER for people with real emergencies. This actually a bigger problem than most people know.

Its a complex problem no doubt.





Do you see how we interacted here and raised several points, even though we may differ in opinion, about social problems and politics without name calling our trash talking? I, [GASP], may have even learned something from another persons point of view!

Simply stunning.

There are a whole myriad of other ideas proposed and many of them absolutely great and absolutely intentionally ignored.

This administration is driven by ideologue, regardless if you think that is spin or not, and quite honestly I don't give a shit about it anymore, because the shit is happening whether you want to believe it or not. And whether we want it or not for that matter.

That ideological thinking, being that Washington knows what's best for us regardless if we know contrary to it or not, and in result ignore the majority of what the people wanted..   This isn't anything new for Washington or government for that matter, but now it comes AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR CHOICE.

We didn't need all of this shit in the bill, much if which isn't even healthcare insurance related.

Why hasn't Torte reform been considered? What about opening insurance to compete on national stage?

We can have a fucking gecko telling us how much we save if we switch our  car insurance, and Wilford Brimley sell us life insurance, but we can't allow competition to drive down the costs of health insurance?

I hear complaints on Torte because it "wouldn't save enough". The point is it's a savings to begin with, but Washington thinking is such that since it would only save 40 billion, or 100 billion and it's not a single miracle plan, then it's not worth it. WTF? If it's just a nickle on the cost of a dollar, then its worth it. Repeal and reform other such "nickle" projects and soon they might find they are saving some serious change.


Now I don't mean to bark and you JT and Thrun, and i'm sorry if you took it to heart, but damnit you guys were provoking it with commentary in this thread. And you both have to realize that this whole issue is a big deal, with people here who are passionate about it.

I've given my money to Childrens Miracle Network, and to St. Judes Hospital on a monthly basis. That is charity, and for me it made me feel as though there is some shred of decency left in me to know that it is going for children.

Now the government is fucking telling me, and 22 millions others that don't want insurance, that we have to give. That's not charity, thats coercion. It's theft.  And considering the amount of money that goes to waste, will it ever see it's intended function?

If the fucking crooks in Washington cleaned up what they are spending on now, we could all have universal insurance without even adding a single cent to taxes. Federal taxes we don't even need in the fucking first place. We had a country run for 100 years without Federal taxes. Imagine what programs you could buy for yourselves without that.

But instead of cleaning up corruption and their waste, it's come down to them enforcing a mandate which revokes my choice?

NOTHING is worth the cost of freedom and choice.

I'm an A and a D.  I don't get it because it is much cheaper for me to pay out of pocket at a clinic.  I have gone in several times before, paid $40 at a walk-in clinic for a visit and usually gotten either a very cheap (<$20) prescription or one of their free Z-pack style promotional packs.  

I definitely see people misusing the ER as a contributor to higher medical prices but I also see Medicare and Medicaid's failure to pay the bills that come their way or pay only a portion of the total cost and something that comes onto other paying members/companies.  I also see the wonton suing of pharmecutical companies and medical practitioners and the rising costs of keeping lawyers on tap.

There are pressing issues this bill didn't cover and its just icky.  Torte reform, a cap on  punitive damages, limits on class action lawsuits.  There's tons of other stuff out there.

I wholeheartedly agree that there are plenty of things, both included and excluded from the bill, worth bitching about.  Unfortunately, the mass media conversation has been hijacked by non-issues like death panels and shapeless threats of the socialism monster.  Instead of hosting an educated conversation with politicians about the nuts and bolts so the public would be informed and could direct their criticisms accordingly, we've had Fox News co-opting Tea Parties as part of their corporate image and liberals crossing their arms in defiance because they will have to pay for their own abortions.  So now have a watered-down plan with no interstate competition, no public option, no torte reform, no pharmaceutical price bargaining, and fines for the uninsured.

But, alas, this is where we find ourselves.  I am very happy about many of the things that the bill does (no pre-existing conditions, no benefit caps, can't drop you if you get sick, 80% of your premium must go to care and if it doesn't you get a refund, etc.) and for those reasons I'm pleased that it passed.  I do wish it had done more in some areas and less in others.  There will undoubtedly be changes over time and therein lies the lingering hope of democracy.  If something sucks bad enough, we can change it.  Let's just hope we can all stop throwing dollar bills at Parkinson's victims long enough to figure out what the fuck is going on and try to steer the ship instead of screaming at each other while demanding "our" America back.

America.

IF we get "our" America back, does this mean we go back to the diffrent countries we all came from........   just asking

I hope not.  I'll have to ship bits of myself all over the world and at my current level of fitness they might charge me freight.

Yes, and while Fox was trying to hijack them, the Left media outlets were calling them racists and astroturf.

A grass roots movement Ignored a taunted by the President himself. Real mature.

[yt=425,350]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aYr1wOVJT0w&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aYr1wOVJT0w&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

Of course that dumb bitch still has her job at CNN despite her blatant attempt to spin media.

And naturally it's just the FOX outlet that has an agenda.


Out of curiosity which country would that be? I was under the impression you were a U.S. citizen.




[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PwrzsLYt-uI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PwrzsLYt-uI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hV-05TLiiLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hV-05TLiiLU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]






Now that we are post bill vote, and it is essentially into law, the fuckers that voted it in are still lying or misleading people on what's in it :

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_yzDbnMY4hg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_yzDbnMY4hg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]



Now we've already learned in this thread that there is in fact a penatly for not buying insurance.

Watching that video did I just hear Wiener say at 3:59 that they are not going to criminalize people not paying the fine? and that's in the bill?

If that's the case, then what's with the announcement that the IRS will need billions more and 16,500 more personnel to enforce the fine? Weiner says they won't be enforcing it 3:33 in the vid.

And in order for them to determine if we are or are not paying the fine, they will have to know our healthcare status.

Seems Pelosi is wrong, and what a suprise. The bill is in, and yet those which voted it in are still spouting fallacy on it, in attempt to prevent people from knowing they are getting shanked.

I also found it amusing that Wiener said "We are big healthcare providers, we in the federal government......... with tax, tax payers money". Took a while for him to  acknowledge us.

Yeah this bill is going to be great.

I don't think the racism claims are off base, last I read it was something like 50% of fox news viewers thought Obama was a Muslim and that negatively influenced their opinion of him.  I don't recall any allegations like this against any of our prior presidents, at least in these volumes.

The president's religion shouldn't matter anyways since this country was founded with the freedom to worship as you please.  I'm not saying it about people who object to health care, but I will say that I believe a huge majority of the birthers were just mad that an uppity nigger was in the white house and were scrambling to try to stop it.

The problem is that our news media is in the business of ratings, not informing us.  Just look at the people standing out in front of the protests highlighting the most hateful people for shock value.  Look at the way the O'reillys of the world wave their hands and yell over the people they are supposed to be interviewing. They are in the business of being divisive and obfuscating. 

[yt=425,350]aFQFB5YpDZE[/yt]

That's not racism. Islam isn't a race. And where exactly did you read that?



And if you are going to wave that stick in the air you are hypocritical because you yourself were bashing Palin for her religion, citing you were scared. That was one of your main talking points against her in the politics thread.

Thats a double standard Thrun, or do you not agree? Or is it ok to just hold that standard to Palin and/or other Christians?


And you come to this conclusion how? Who tells you that? Should inquiring people be branded racists just because you think so?



You pointed out the media is intentionally creating division, but again you are being hypocritical if you are sourcing it to come to conclusion that these people are racists.

The whole Left media was up in arms over the Obama Socialism poster with him as joker, citing it as done by typical right-wing racist who can't accept a negro in office. But when we learned it was in fact NOT done by a white person, nor of party affiliation, we didn't hear shit further on that.

Yes, the Oreilly's of the world come in many guises; Maddow, Olbermann, Matthews, Cooper, Kouric.

Just be sure that before you jump to brand people racists, you have actual idea on what's really going on.

It was GOP's sorry, not fox news viewers.  I'll address the rest when I get back form my appointment.

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/03/24/the-fox-effect-67-of-gops-believe-obama-is-a-socialist-57-thats-hes-a-muslim-45-that-he-was-not-born-in-u-s/

Yeah that link was credible up until the point I clicked on it and realized it's a blog, and I saw this on the left side:

"Watch George W. Bush Wipe Something Icky off His Hand onto Bill Clinton’s Shirt"

"Tea Baggers Show True Colors at Capitol – Called Civil Rights Heroes ‘Niggers,’ Rep. Frank a ‘Faggot,’ Spat on Rep. Cleaver, an African-American Minister"  (With no evidence cited)


Not a biased source at all.

They cite the source of the polling information,  take it from yahoo or any other number of places that mentioned the results. That was just the first one on my search on my way out.  

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20100323/ts_dailybeast/7269_scarynewgoppoll

As far as the Christian thing, Obama is a Christian and I voted for him.  I think this is a rehashing of the same argument we had about this last time.  Since I wasn't clear enough let me expound.

I don't deny Sarah Palin her right to be a Christian and hold office, or any one else for that matter. I voted for Obama, a Christian.  My problem with her is that she uses her religion as an excuse to try and legislate her morality which happens to come from a fucked up sect that will entertains YEC ideas amongst other equally insane notions.  There's no middle ground here, to buy in to the ideas they put forth you are either not playing with a full deck of cards  or you've chosen to completely ignore rational thought and discussion.  These are not good leadership traits.  Let me know if that is not clear enough, I could probably write a 10 page paper on this with out breaking a sweat.


I come to the racism conclusion because it is most likely, if you have another conclusion put it forth.  Here is why I find it the most likely.

If you look at the ethnic origins of Islam it is predominantly practiced by non whites. Despite repeated, irrefutable evidence that Obama is not Muslim they insist on saying he is.  These people are either plugging their ears and going NEANER NEANER NEANER or they have a logical disconnect going on that they can't overcome.

The birth issue, despite undeniable proof to the contrary they claim that he was born in Kenya.  Again, either these people are willfully ignoring evidence or they have some sort of disconnect that they can't overcome.

One of the glaring things both being from Kenya and Islam have in common is that they are largely associated with brown skinned folks, so I don't think it's that huge of a leap to say that the people that ignoring the facts and screaming it over and over would rather just be screaming 'he's a nigger' but can't get away with doing that in our society.

As far as tea party racism, I did some research since I was curious.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/20/health-care-protesters-hurl-verbal-epithets-african-american-lawmakers/


edit**
Ok, now I am getting even more curious about this.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/12982

Literacy tests?  Is Tom just not choosing his words carefully, or is he a fan of Jim Crow laws?

Yeah it's perfectly clear. Obama gets a free pass despite attending a radical church, yet Palin has to be persecuted.



Christianity is predominately practiced by non whites as well.

The public's hang up with Islam, is due to radical Islam. You don't watch 2 airplanes fly into 2 NY buildings, have an asshole go on a gun shooting spree on an army base, and just wake up the next day and have a positive outlook on Islam. I don't care how much Robot Unicorn Attack you play, there is a real world to return to.


Or it's the fact that there was controversy with the birth certificate in the first place which has left people hung up on the issue.

Are black people that think 9/11 was an inside job with George Bush in on it racists?

or does that just apply to white people?


One of the glaring things that George Bush and Kenya have in common is that after Katrina, GW visited Kenya on a power-sharing arrangement issue.

If you reverse the "a" and the "e" in Kenya, you get Kanye! And Kanye said G.W.hates all black people after Katrina  :o

When has Obama gotten up, in public and parroted out the beliefs that were put forth at this radical Church?

Have we forgotten Christians blowing up federal buildings, bombing at the Olympics and shooting up clinics?  Murdering Doctors? Why has the christian religion been given a free pass to breed violent radicals but Islam gets nailed for its extreme groups?

What controversy with the birth certificate?  It was all fabricated, there was no controversy.

Yes, allegations. Great.

Just like the Obama Joker poster. Allegations of racism there too, up until we found the kid wasn't white at all!  :o


What are we looking at here?

He called President Barack Obama a "committed Socialist idealogue".   First he's accurate. The whole running campaign against Obama since he was a socialist/communist was a joke up until we actually found this to be true. He's said himself he wants to spread the wealth around. And.. lo and behold, look at the events that transpired this week, a new Socialist program!

"and built a reputation on his vehement opposition to illegal immigrants."  Damn Tom, God forbid you speak against immigrants which cannot spell a lick of English, yet get to vote.

We use to have a program which required immigrants to meet a certain criteria, and be upheld to language standards, and required to accept English as national language as part of naturalization process.

Oh that ole Tom, he's got some sneaky business up his sleeves. Keep an eye on him.

This is a little bit to wade through, but there's video of the faggot remark. Right around 37 seconds.  It's documented. 

http://bravenewfilms.org/

HAHAAHA!!

That was a fine piece of comedic film about Tea Party racism, without one single ounce of racism in it!
I also loved the mix-matching of sound bytes and the addition of dramatic music. Almost ranks next to the many YouTube New World Order/Satan videos with Matrix music.

You gotta be fucking kidding me dude.



Biden says racial remarks:

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9VMl_hFkH7k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9VMl_hFkH7k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

Harry Reid spouting racial remarks:

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dDl6gd4y65g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dDl6gd4y65g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]


Liberal Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I said that video had to be waded through, explain to me how screaming Faggot at a gay senator is out of context please and you've not addressed any of the other things I've said.  

As others have said, drop the ass hat routine to it's old.  I can run down the list of "conservative hypocrisy" if you want me to but it's better off just left as hypocrisy since everyone knows it's equal on any side of the spectrum in politics.

If you want to have a serious conversation about it, I'll have one.  If you want to play this right/left crossfire bullshit you can play on your own.

Here are the responses I posted to the last exchange.

When has Obama gotten up, in public and parroted out the beliefs that were put forth at this radical Church?

Have we forgotten Christians blowing up federal buildings, bombing at the Olympics and shooting up clinics?  Murdering Doctors? Why has the christian religion been given a free pass to breed violent radicals but Islam gets nailed for its extreme groups?

What controversy with the birth certificate?  It was all fabricated, there was no controversy.

It's out of context because "faggot" not in line with your racism allegation, that's why. Furthermore it's not even audible in the video, but if it was, where is the indication that it's from anyone affiliated with any kind of Tea Party?

Are all people objecting to the healthcare bill only associated with Tea Parties?  


I've only address your points which have been suspect or double standard.  Your sudden declaration of people having a right to their own beliefs when concering Barack, and your subsequent retracting that when faced with the dilemma that you would have to feel the same way about Palin.

And of course your attacks on Tea Parties as racists with no credence.


I can run down the list with you too, including the Fox blatant censorship of Ron Paul and them minimalizing his potential by calling him a joke.

It becomes Left hypocrisy when I, and other independents or Libertarians are cast into the pool of "right wingers" or extreme conservatism and branded as racists by the Left, for objecting to healthcare and/or this administration's policies.

According to the Left, It can't fucking be that people are not affiliated with the Republican party when they object this administration.


Which extreme parroted beliefs has Palin enacted in her term as Governor?

And if a candidate does or does not run on policies which are fundamental to any one religion, why should that matter?

According to you:

Or are you ready to burn all bridges to that comment you made?

Inquiry grew because he didn't present his Certificate when the allegation was rampant, thus their hang up on it.


It was probably drowned out somewhere in the sheer number of Islamic extremist attacks. I could probably list 400 islamic extremist attacks for any one of Christian extremism.



Date / Country / City / Killed / Injured / Description :

2010.03.25 Afghanistan Khost 2 4 Two Afghan civilians are killed when Islamic hardliners attack a NATO base.
2010.03.24 Iraq Hit 3 2 A teenage suicide bomber murders three people in their home.
2010.03.24 Iraq Radwaniya 5 0 Five Iraqi soldiers are shot to death execution style at a checkpoint.
2010.03.24 Afghanistan Uruzgan 2 0 Two men working for a land-mine clearing operation are murdered by Islamists.
2010.03.24 Afghanistan Ghazni 3 0 Three local cops are blasted to death by Taliban bombers.
2010.03.23 Pakistan Orakzai 1 0 A tribal elder is abducted and executed by religious extremists.
2010.03.23 Iraq Balad Ruz 1 0 Suspected al-Qaeda bombers take down a Sunni leader.
2010.03.22 Pakistan Rawalpindi 1 1 A Christian dies after being burned alive three days earlier for refusing to embrace Islam. His wife was also raped.
2010.03.22 Iraq Baghdad 2 0 Two city workers are brutally shot to death by Muslim terrorists.
2010.03.22 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An electrician is murdered in front of his home by drive-by Jihadis.
2010.03.22 Iraq Radwaniya 2 0 Islamic 'insurgents' gun down two policemen.
2010.03.21 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An elderly man is gunned down in his home by Islamic terrorists.
2010.03.21 Pakistan Quetta 4 5 A suicide bomber on a bicycle pedals to paradise, taking four innocents with him.
2010.03.21 Afganistan Helmand 10 7 Ten Afghans at a market are blown to bits by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2010.03.21 Iraq Yusufiya 3 5 Three Iraqis are taken down by a roadside bomb.
2010.03.21 Afghanistan Khost 3 3 Three young men are killed when Islamists bomb a picnic area.
2010.03.21 Iraq Garma 2 0 A man and wife are shot to death in their home by al-Qaeda.
2010.03.21 Pakistan North Waziristan 4 0 Tehreek-e-Taliban hardliners abduct and execute four local tribesmen.
2010.03.20 Pakistan Quetta 4 0 Four Shias are shredded by gunfire in a suspected sectarian attack.
2010.03.20 Pakistan Peshawar 1 0 Hardliners beat a student to death for playing music, which they consider to be against Islamic teaching.
2010.03.20 Somalia Kismayo 1 0 Islamists gun down a rival.
2010.03.20 Pakistan Kurram 1 6 A woman is killed in the crossfire when rival religious groups clash.
2010.03.19 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Muslim radicals gun down an auto parts salesman.
2010.03.19 Pakistan Kurram 2 3 Islamists attack the houses of peace committee members, leaving two dead.
2010.03.19 Iraq Baghdad 4 7 Four Iraqis are blown to bits by Mujahideen bombers.
2010.03.18 Pakistan Mohmand 1 0 A young girl is taken out by a Taliban landmine.
2010.03.18 Pakistan Bajaur 1 0 Islamists gun down an off-cuty policeman on his way home.
2010.03.18 Iraq Mosul 2 1 A woman in her home is among two people murdered by Islamic terrorists.
2010.03.18 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 Islamic terrorists murder a woman inside her home.
2010.03.18 Iraq Sherquat 2 0 Two men are abducted and beheaded by suspected al-Qaeda.
2010.03.18 Israel Netiv Haasara 1 0 A 30-year-old farm laborer is killed by a Palestinian rocket fired from Gaza.
2010.03.17 Pakistan Khyber 5 2 Five security personnel are slain by an Islamist attack on a checkpost.
2010.03.17 Nigeria Dyie 13 6 Thirteen more Christian villagers are massacred by Muslim raiders in an overnight attack, including a mother and two children burned to death. Victims also had their tongues cut out.
2010.03.17 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A 55-year-old Christian father is shot down in cold blood.
2010.03.17 Thailand Yala 1 2 Muslim militants murder a teenage boy and seriously injure his parents.
2010.03.16 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 Islamic radicals shoot a 43-year-old Buddhist civilian to death.
2010.03.16 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A woman and her daughter are gunned down by Sunni terrorists.
2010.03.16 Thailand Pattani 1 1 Islamists shoot a 38-year old teacher to death in an attack that leaves his 7-year-old son injured.
2010.03.16 Iraq Mussayab 8 11 Jihadis plant two bombs on a bus that leave eight dead and eleven more in agony.
2010.03.16 Pakistan Kurram 3 0 Three local tribesmen are killed in a botched kidnapping attempt by Taliban hardliners.
2010.03.16 India Srinagar 4 9 A salesman is among four people murdered in two separate attacks by Islamic snipers.
2010.03.15 Iraq Fallujah 8 28 A Shahid suicide bomber detonates among a group of laborers, leaving at least eight dead.
2010.03.15 Iraq Khaldiya 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated by Religion of Peace rivals.
2010.03.15 Iraq Mosul 3 2 Three police are killed in separate Mujahideen attacks.
2010.03.15 Afghanistan Ghazni 3 0 Three civilians are shredded by a Taliban shrapnel bomb.
2010.03.14 Iraq Mosul 4 2 Four local cops are cut to pieces by Jihadi roadside bombers.
2010.03.14 India Srinagar 1 5 Islamic militants lob a hand grenade at a police vehicle, killing one officer.
2010.03.14 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An imam leaving a mosque is gunned down by Religion of Peace rivals.
2010.03.14 Pakistan Khyber 2 0 An electrician is among two civilians shot to death by Islamic militants.
2010.03.14 Afghanistan Marjah 1 0 A reported beheading of a local civilian by the Taliban is confirmed.
2010.03.14 Pakistan Dera Ismail Khan 1 0 Islamic terrorists kill a civilian with a landmine.
2010.03.13 Afghanistan Kandahar 35 52 About thirty innocent people are incinerated by a series of paradise-seeking suicide bombers
2010.03.13 Pakistan Mingora 17 51 Seventeen people at a courthouse are blown to bits by a Tehreek-e-Taliban suicide bomber pulling a rickshaw.
2010.03.13 Iraq Baghdad 3 19 Three Iraqis are taken down by a pair of Jihad blasts.
2010.03.13 Pakistan Mohmand 3 0 Three tribal members are machine-gunned to death by Religion of Peace radicals.
2010.03.12 Pakistan Lahore 62 85 Over sixty innocents are sent to Allah by two Fedayeen suicide bombers.
2010.03.12 Iraq Karbalah 2 3 A car bomb follows prayers, leaving two dead.
2010.03.12 India Srinagar 1 0 A civilian standing outside a mosque is murdered by a Mujahideen sniper.
2010.03.12 Egypt Marsa Matruh 0 23 Twenty-three Chistians are injured when a Muslim mob attacks their community after rumors of a church construction.
2010.03.12 Thailand Yala 2 2 A respected police chief is murdered by Islamic bombers six months short of retirement.
2010.03.12 Iraq Zoubaa 1 1 Freedom fighters kill a young boy outside of a policeman's home.
2010.03.11 Pakistan Karachi 4 0 Four Sunnis are shot to death by Shiites while riding in a car.
2010.03.11 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamists gun down a 61-year-old Buddhist broom salesman.
2010.03.11 Afghanistan Paktia 3 1 Three local security personnel are murdered by fundamentalist bombers.
2010.03.11 Pakistan Bajaur 2 0 Two people are killed in a shooting ambush by Islamic militants.
2010.03.11 Afghanistan Kapisa 5 3 Four children and one adult are dismembered by a Taliban roadside blast.
2010.03.11 Somalia Mogadishu 2 0 Two telecom employees are dragged into the street and beheaded by Religion of Peace extremists.
2010.03.11 Thailand Pattani 3 1 Three telephone company workers are shot by Mujahideen and then set on fire while still alive.
2010.03.11 Pakistan Peshawar 4 21 A child is among four people taken down by a suicide bomber.
2010.03.10 Somalia Mogadishu 42 83 At least forty civilians are killed during a sustained assault by al-Shabaab militia.
2010.03.10 Pakistan Oghi 6 0 Six aid workers of a Christian charity are herded out of their office by Muslim gunmen and machine-gunned to death.
2010.03.10 Afghanistan Faryab 2 4 Two children are blown apart by a terrorist landmine. Four others are injured.
2010.03.10 Afghanistan Paktika 5 4 Five security personnel are killed by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2010.03.09 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Sunni terrorists gun down a man at a bus station.
2010.03.09 Afghanistan Khost 2 3 A Shahid suicide bomber at a military base kills two soldiers.
2010.03.09 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 45-year-old salesman is shot once in the back of the head, then set on fire by Religion of Peace terrorists.
2010.03.09 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Islamists assassinate a rival in an open-air market.
2010.03.09 Somalia Mogadishu 3 0 At least three civilians are killed during an attack by Islamic militia.
2010.03.09 Lebanon Hakr al-Daheri 1 0 A 24-year-old woman with a boyfriend is shot twice in the head by her brother to 'cleanse the family honor.'
2010.03.08 Pakistan Lahore 15 60 Fifteen people are blown to bits by a Fedayeen suicide bomber at an office park.
2010.03.08 Iraq Fallujah 2 1 Two civilians are gunned down by Sunni terrorists.
2010.03.08 Pakistan Lashkar-e-Islam 2 0 Lashkar-e-Islam gunmen take down two people in separate attacks.
2010.03.08 Afghanistan Badghis 12 0 Ten civilians and two local cops are dismembered by two Sunni bombs.
2010.03.08 Niger Niamey 5 0 Five members of a border patrol lose their lives to an al-Qaeda ambush.
2010.03.08 Pakistan South Waziristan 2 1 Two tribal elders are blown apart by a Taliban roadside bomb.
2010.03.07 Iraq Baghdad 51 140 Over fifty Iraqis are taken down in a series of bomb blasts and shootings around the country by Mujahideen intent on disrupting elections.
2010.03.07 Yemen Sanaa 2 0 Two hospital guards are gunned down by an al-Qaeda terrorist.
2010.03.07 Pakistan Orakzai 1 0 The beheaded body of a tribal elder is found a few days after his abduction by the Taliban.
2010.03.07 Pakistan Lahore 1 0 A Christian man dies during a home invasion by Muslim gunmen.
2010.03.07 India Srinagar 1 0 A 30-year-old shopkeeper is murdered by Islamic gunmen.
2010.03.07 Nigeria Dogo Nahauwa 528 600 Over five-hundred Christians, mostly women and children, are hacked to death by Muslim raiders with machetes in a night-time attack on their village. The killers yelled 'Allah Akbar,' as they chopped.
2010.03.07 Afghanistan Baghlan 19 0 At least 19 civilians are killed when the Taliban and Hezb-e-Islami fundamentalist terror groups clash.
2010.03.06 Iraq Garma 1 2 A woman is taken out by a Jihadi bomber.
2010.03.06 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A taxi driver dies after a savage machete attack by Muslim separatists.
2010.03.06 Iraq Najaf 4 54 Four Shia pilgrims are killed when Sunni radicals bomb a shrine.
2010.03.05 Pakistan Hangu 12 35 At least four women are among a dozen dead Shiites after a Sunni suicide bomber detonates near a passenger bus.
2010.03.05 Iraq Mussayab 1 0 A child is blown apart by Mujahideen bombers.
2010.03.04 Pakistan Chamarkand 1 0 One person is killed when religious extremists attack a security post with rockets.
2010.03.04 Afghanistan Kandahar 5 0 Five construction workers are shot to pieces at point-blank range by Islamic terrorists.
2010.03.04 Iraq Baghdad 17 61 Three separate Jihad bombings take the lives of seventeen people, including voters waiting in line.
2010.03.03 Iraq Mosul 1 0 An imam is gunned down in his mosque by Religion of Peace rivals.
2010.03.03 Iraq Baquba 33 55 Three Shahid suicide bombers take down more than thirty Iraqis in coordinated attacks.
2010.03.03 Iraq Kirkuk 2 0 Terrorists stab a man and his wife to death inside their home.
2010.03.03 Somalia Mogadishu 12 49 Children are among those killed during an al-Shabaab assault.
2010.03.02 Thailand Pattani 2 2 Islamists open fire on a father and his three daughters, killing him and a 7-year-old.
2010.03.02 Pakistan Khuzdar 2 12 Suspected fundamentalists bomb a music show, killing two college students.
2010.03.01 Afghanistan Kandahar 4 0 Four civilians die in a brutal suicide attack on a bridge.
2010.03.01 Afghanistan Kandahar 1 15 A civilian is killed by a Taliban bomb.
2010.03.01 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 2 0 Two employees of a construction company are incinerated by a Sunni roadside bomb.
2010.03.01 Pakistan Karak 4 24 A Holy Warrior sends four innocents to Allah with a suicide bomb.
2010.03.01 India Shimoga 1 0 A man dies from injuries after being hit with stones thrown by a mob angered over a newspaper article deemed insulting to Islam.
2010.03.01 Iraq Baghdad 4 0 Islamic fundamentalists bomb a liquor store, killing the owner and three patrons.
2010.03.01 Afghanistan Baghdad 3 0 A 10-year-old boy is among three people killed by dedicated Islamic bombers.
2010.03.01 Philippines Mindanao 1 0 A Chinese national dies from health complications suffered during an Abu Sayyaf kidnapping.
2010.02.28 Afghanistan Helmand 11 0 Two women and two children are among eleven civilians taken down by Islamic bombers.
2010.02.28 Afghanistan Khost 6 0 Six local soldiers die in two Taliban bomb attacks.
2010.02.28 Afghanistan Kabul 5 2 Muslim terrorists shoot five family members to death inside their home.
2010.02.28 Iraq Khalidiya 2 2 Jihadis take out two Iraqis with a car bomb.
2010.02.27 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamic separatists pump a 70-year-old man full of bullets as he is walking home.
2010.02.27 Philippines Tubigan 15 13 Women and five children (ages 1 to 11) are among thirteen gunned down by Moro Islamists sweeping through a Christian village.
2010.02.27 Pakistan Dera Ismail Khan 1 7 A sectarian sniper takes down one civilian in a Sunni procession.
2010.02.27 Pakistan Karak 4 23 A child is among four locals murdered in separate suicide bombings.
2010.02.27 Pakistan Dera Ismail Khan 7 38 Seven people are killed in a sectarian mob attack on a seminary.
2010.02.26 Liberia Voinjama 4 23 A Muslim mob burns churches and kills at least four Christians.
2010.02.26 Afghanistan Kabul 17 32 Religious extremists attack guesthouses with suicide bombs and gunfire, killing seventeen people, including several foreigners.
2010.02.26 Somalia Mogadishu 4 5 An Islamist landmine attack leaves four local soldiers dead.
2010.02.26 Pakistan Lahore 0 3 A Christian family is terrorized in their home by a Muslim gang. One girl is raped and the other stabbed four times.
2010.02.26 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 An imam is shot to death by members of a rival mosque.
2010.02.26 Iraq Mosul 3 22 Three Iraqis are taken down by a Jihadi bomb planted in a dumpster.
2010.02.25 India Pulwama 1 0 Mujahideen gun down a shopkeeper.
2010.02.25 Iraq Mosul 2 0 Two members of a minority community are gunned down in their store by militant Muslims.
2010.02.25 Saudi Arabia Riyadh 1 3 Four British cyclists are delibertely run down by drivers in two cars. A 54-year-old humanitarian worker dies from injuries.
2010.02.25 Iraq Mosul 2 0 Two women are killed in separate Jihad attacks. One is stabbed and the other beheaded.
2010.02.24 Pakistan Peshawar 4 0 Four young brothers, ages 4 to 17, are destroyed by a Taliban rocket attack on their home.
2010.02.24 Pakistan North Waziristan 3 0 Three civilians have their throats cut by the Taliban, who throw their headless bodies into a ditch.
2010.02.24 Pakistan Hangu 3 3 Suspected Islamic radicals fire on a railway car, killing three passengers, including a college student.
2010.02.24 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 Terrorists assassinate a judge with a bomb outside his home.
2010.02.23 Ingushetia Ordzhonikidzevskaya 1 0 A security officer is gunned down in his car by Muslim rebels.
2010.02.23 India Baramulla 3 3 Islamic militants open fire on a group of Indian soldiers, killing three.
2010.02.23 Iraq Mosul 2 5 Jihadis gun down two local cops.
2010.02.23 Iraq Baghdad 3 5 Islamists plant a bomb on a dead body, which kills three people assigned to remove the corpse.
2010.02.23 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 7 14 Seven civilians at a bus stop are blown to pieces by a bicycle bomb.
2010.02.23 Iraq Mosul 3 0 A Christian father and his two sons are murdered in their home. They were relatives of a priest.
2010.02.22 Iraq Baghdad 8 0 Eight Shia family members, including a pregnant woman are shot and beheaded in their home by suspected al-Qaeda.
2010.02.22 Pakistan Swat 6 5 A half-dozen people are taken down by a Shahid suicide bomber at a marketplace.
2010.02.22 Pakistan Peshawar 1 1 A prominent Shia leader is assassinated by Sunni gunmen.
2010.02.22 Pakistan Mingora 13 41 Four women are among more than a dozen innocents blasted to death by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2010.02.22 Iraq Baghdad 7 8 A university professor and a streetsweeper are among seven people shot to death by Muslim terrorists in separate attacks.
2010.02.22 Algeria Boumerdes 1 5 A local soldier is killed in a bomb attack by Islamic fundamentalists.
2010.02.22 Iraq Ramadi 5 5 A Jihadi car bomb takes down five Iraqis outside a government building, including a 6-year-old boy.
2010.02.22 Iraq Baghdad 4 0 Sunni militants invade a home and gun down a Shia woman and her three daughters.
2010.02.22 India Baramulla 1 3 A local family is brutally assaulted by Muslim thugs, who smash the head of their 10-day old infant with a rock.
2010.02.22 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two guards at a shop are shot to death in a Muslim drive-by.
2010.02.22 Indonesia Aceh 2 0 A man and his son are shot to death by Jemaah Islamiyah linked terrorists.
2010.02.21 Pakistan Khyber 2 0 The heads of three Sikhs, kidnapped by the Taliban, are discovered. Two were businessmen who did not pay the Jizya. The other would not embrace Islam.
2010.02.21 Somalia Mogadishu 3 0 Three men are killed in a Hizbul Islam bombing.
2010.02.21 Iraq Taji 1 7 Sunni gunmen fire on a bus carrying Shia pilgrims, killing at least one passenger.
2010.02.21 Iraq Tikrit 1 2 A suicide bomber targeting a mosque manages to kill one civilian.
2010.02.21 Iraq Khanaqin 5 1 Jihadis gun down five guards at a power station at point-blank range
2010.02.20 Afghanistan Helmand 2 0 Two civilians on a motorcycle are murdered by Mujahid bombers.
2010.02.20 Pakistan Balakot 1 3 Three suicide attackers manage to kill only one police officer in assaults on two stations.
2010.02.20 Ingushetia Nazran 2 37 Two people are blown to bits by an Islamic bomb.
2010.02.20 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A 57-year-old Christian shopkeeper is kidnapped and brutally shot to death by Muslim kidnappers.
2010.02.20 Pakistan Swat 1 0 The body of a businessman kidnapped earlier by Islamic fundamentalists is discovered.
2010.02.20 Afghanistan Helmand 6 2 The Taliban open fire on a group of police officers clearing a poppy field, killing six.
2010.02.20 Bangladesh Baghaichhari 8 200 At least eight people are killed when Muslim villagers riot against Christian and Buddhist neighbors.
2010.02.20 Iraq Mosul 3 2 Three Iraqis are dismembered by Sunni bombers.
2010.02.19 Iraq Tal Afar 1 0 Islamic gunmen murder a cop on his way home.
2010.02.19 Iraq Ramadi 10 15 Terrorists successfully kill ten Iraqis with a car bomb.
2010.02.19 Afghanistan Kandahar 4 0 Four civilians are taken down by a Taliban roadside bomb.
2010.02.19 Philippines Basilan 2 1 Two local soldiers killed by an Abu Sayyaf bomb.
2010.02.18 Pakistan Mingora 1 2 Taliban hard-liners ambush a police patrol, killing one officer.
2010.02.18 Iraq Baghdad 13 26 A Fedayeen suicide bomber sends over a dozen Iraqis to Allah.
2010.02.18 Pakistan Tirah 31 110 Thirty people are incinerated by a Shahid suicide bomber at a rival mosque.
2010.02.18 Iraq Mosul 0 22 A Jihadi car bombing injures two dozen people.
2010.02.18 Thailand Yala 1 12 Industrious Islamists shoot a civilian to death in one district and set off a motorcycle bomb in another.
2010.02.17 Philippines Mindanao 1 2 A 9-year-old boy is taken down by a Moro Islamist landmine.
2010.02.17 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Another young Christian is shot to death by Muslim extremists.
2010.02.17 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Religion of Peace advocates behead two government soldiers trying to guard teachers.
2010.02.16 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A woman and a civil servant are gunned down in separate Jihad attacks.
2010.02.16 Iraq Mosul 2 9 Holy Warriors manage to kill two Iraqis with a car bomb.
2010.02.15 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A 42-year-old Christian is shot to death in front of his store.
2010.02.15 Somalia Mogadishu 2 2 An al-Shabaab suicide bomber targets a moving vehicle, killing two bystanders.
2010.02.15 Lebanon Ain el Hilweh 2 0 An attack by a Sunni fundamentalist group leaves two people dead, including a woman.
2010.02.15 Yemen Jawf 1 0 A 51-year-old man is shot to death by Shia radicals while eating lunch.
2010.02.15 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A 20-year-old Christian student is kidnapped and brutally murdered by Mujahideen.
2010.02.15 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 A rubber tapper and her daughter are gunned down by Muslim radicals on the plantation where they worked.
2010.02.15 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 36-year-old man is shot to death by Islamic militants at his work site.
2010.02.14 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Islamists brutally murder a Buddhist woman and her 13-year-old daughter.
2010.02.14 Iraq Baghdad 2 6 Mujahideen bomb a cafe, killing two patrons.
2010.02.14 Pakistan Sindh 3 16 Suspected fundamentalists bomb a movie theater, leaving at least three innocents dead.
2010.02.14 Dagestan Novogodari 3 0 A young girl is among three people killed when Muslim gunmen open up on a vehicle.
2010.02.14 Ingushetia Nazran 2 0 Jihadis wipe out a young man and his mother near the entrance to a mosque.
2010.02.14 Iraq Mosul 1 1 Islamists enter a Christian businessman's home and murder him.
2010.02.14 Pakistan Khyber 3 0 Muslim radicals gun down three civilians in separate attacks.
2010.02.13 Pakistan Kasur 1 0 A Muslim mob beats a young man to death after his father declares himself a prophet.
2010.02.13 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 44-year-old man is gunned down by Islamic militants while using the restroom.
2010.02.13 Thailand Pattani 1 2 Muslim militants shoot a man sitting on his front porch with friends.
2010.02.13 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 7 A Fedayeen suicide bomber sends two other souls to Allah.
2010.02.13 Iraq Kufa 6 10 A female suicide bomber murders at least six Shia pilgrims headed to a religious ceremony.
2010.02.13 India Pune 17 37 Five women are more than a dozen innocents blasted to death by a Mujahid bomber at a bakery near a Jewish center.
2010.02.12 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 38-year-old man is murdered by Muslim gunmen.
2010.02.12 Iraq Buhriz 2 0 A man and his son are blown to bits by Jihadi bombers.
2010.02.12 Somalia Afgoye 2 0 al-Shabaab Islamists shoot two civilians to death.
2010.02.12 Yemen Saada 1 7 Militant Shiites ambush and kill a government soldier.
2010.02.11 Iraq Mosul 1 0 Jihadis murder a 17-year-old with an IED.
2010.02.11 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 An imam at a mosque is gunned down by sectarian rivals.
2010.02.11 Philippines Cotabato 1 0 Muslim extremists shoot a man to death as he is riding a motorbike to work.
2010.02.11 Pakistan Bannu 15 24 Fifteen innocents are blown to bits in a double suicide bombing by Islamic militants.
2010.02.10 Pakistan Khyber 1 2 The Taliban murder a member of a rescue team.
2010.02.10 Somalia Hamarjajab 5 7 al-Shabaab militants take out five Somalis with a roadside bomb.
2010.02.10 Pakistan Khyber 18 10 A teenage Fedayeen suicide bomber detonates along a highway, killing nearly twenty others.
2010.02.10 Thailand Pattani 2 0 Two men are shot to death by Mujahideen in separate attacks.
2010.02.10 Israel Nablus 1 0 A Palestinian policeman walks up to an Israeli soldier and stabs him to death.
2010.02.10 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A Buddhist man at a bird singing competition is brutally gunned down by Muslim radicals.
2010.02.10 Iraq Baquba 2 1 Jihadi gunmen take down two Iraqis in their own home.
2010.02.10 Iraq Abu Ghraib 2 4 Two Iraqi cops are blown apart by Mujahideen bombers.
2010.02.09 Sudan al-Baytari 4 15 Janjiweed militia attack a refugee camp and murder four residents.
2010.02.09 Iraq Baghdad 1 1 Muslim assassins murder a man in front of his wife.
2010.02.09 Egypt Menoufia 1 0 A young Christian carpenter is gunned down at close range by a Muslim policeman in a suspected sectarian attack.
2010.02.08 Pakistan Khyber 1 4 A young girl is killed in a rocket attack by Sunni hardliners.
2010.02.08 Iraq Baghdad 1 3 One civilian is killed by Jihadi bombers while crossing a bridge.
2010.02.08 Pakistan Rawalpindi 4 1 Muslim terrorists open fire on a vehicle, killing two occupants and two bystanders.
2010.02.08 India Sopore 1 0 A police officer is gunned down by Muslim militants.
2010.02.08 Pakistan Punjab 0 1 A Christian man is beaten unconscious for refusing to embrace Islam.
2010.02.08 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamic radicals target a Buddhist teacher riding home on his motorcycle. He is shot and then set on fire.
2010.02.08 Somalia Mogadishu 10 20 al-Shabaab claims responsibility for a series of attacks that leave at least ten civilians dead.
2010.02.08 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 41-year-old man is shot to death in his own backyard by Islamists.
2010.02.07 Afghanistan Mazar-e Sharif 3 1 Two Swedes and their interpretor are shot to death by religious extremists dresses as police.
2010.02.07 Pakistan North Waziristan 1 0 An Afghan refugee is kidnapped and murdered by Islamic hardliners.
2010.02.07 Iraq Mosul 1 1 A female veterinarian is shot to death by Holy Warriors.
2010.02.07 Iraq Diwaniya 1 3 Jihadis bomb a minibus, killing one occupant.
2010.02.07 Afghanistan Kandahar 4 2 Islamists detonate a hidden bomb under a bridge, taking out a car full of local cops.
2010.02.06 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 A local soldier in a moving truck is killed by a Mujahideen sniper.
2010.02.05 India Baramulla 2 0 A civilian and local cop are murdered in a Mujahideen ambush.
2010.02.05 Pakistan Malakand 1 0 A local soldier standing guard is gunned down in cold blood by Islamists.
2010.02.05 Pakistan Karachi 33 80 A Christian family and dozens of Shiites are blown to bits by Sunni bombers at two locations, one a hospital.
2010.02.05 Iraq Karbalah 41 154 A barbaric Sunni double car-bombing against Shia pilgrims at a religious festival leaves at least forty dead.
2010.02.05 India Sopore 3 0 Islamic terrorists approach a police checkpoint and open fire, killing a civilian and two officers.
2010.02.05 Afghanistan Helmand 2 20 Two civilians are incinerated by a Taliban roadside bomb.
2010.02.04 Afghanistan Kandahar 3 17 Three people are dismembered by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2010.02.04 Iraq Baghdad 1 0 A man leaving a mosque is killed by a suspected Mujahid.
2010.02.03 Pakistan Swat 9 115 Four children are among nine people killed when the Tehrik-e-Taliban bomb am opening ceremony at a girl's school.
2010.02.03 Iraq Baghdad 1 3 Sunni bombers send a Shia pilgrim straight to Allah.
2010.02.03 Iraq Karbalah 23 147 A Fedayeen bomber passes out fruit to children before detonating, killing nearly two dozen.
2010.02.03 Germany Northrhein-Westphalia 1 0 A mother of four is beheaded and then has her fingers cut off in a suspected 'honor' attack by her husband.
2010.02.03 Iraq Touz Khormato 1 0 A teacher is kidnapped and killed by Muslim radicals.
2010.02.03 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A rubber tapper working with his wife is shot in the back by Muslim militants with a shotgun
2010.02.02 Philippines Maluso 1 8 Suspected Abu Sayyaf militants plant a landmine that kills one local soldier.
2010.02.02 Iraq Karbalah 3 21 Three Shia pilgirms are murdered by Sunni bombers.
2010.02.02 Pakistan Mohmand 2 2 Two members of a peace community pay the ultimate price when Islamic hardliners blow them up.
2010.02.01 Ingushetia Nazran 1 3 Islamists fire five grenades into a building, killing at least one occupant.
2010.02.01 Iraq Baghdad 54 117 A female suicide bomber murders fifty-four innocent Shia pilgrims at a hospitality tent, mostly women and children.
2010.02.01 Ingushetia Nazran 1 3 A bomb planted in a kindergarten explodes, leaving one person dead.
2010.01.31 Iraq Mosul 1 0 A young woman is shot to death inside her home by Muslim terrorists.
2010.01.31 Thailand Pattani 3 1 A 6-year-old boy and his parents are brutally shot to death by Religion of Peace advocates.
2010.01.31 Pakistan Mohmand 2 2 The Taliban take out two local troops with a landmine.
2010.01.31 Somalia Mogadishu 8 55 A mother and her 4-year-old child are among eight civilians killed during an al-Shabaab mortar attack.
2010.01.30 Somalia Mogadishu 12 25 A mother and her two children are among a dozen civilians burned or blasted to death when Islamists lob mortars into their neighborhood.
2010.01.30 Iraq Samarrah 2 20 Two people at a restaurant are blown to bits by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2010.01.30 Pakistan Bolochistan 3 7 Sectarian Jihadis fire into a bus filled with Shia pilgrims, killing at least three.
2010.01.30 Pakistan Bajaur 16 20 A suicide bomber at a market sends sixteen shoppers straight to Allah.
2010.01.30 Pakistan North Waziristan 2 0 The Taliban abduct two civilians, then shoot them to death in captivity.
2010.01.30 Iraq Baghdad 1 4 Sunni bombers take out a Shia pilgrim.
2010.01.30 Afghanistan Uruzgan 1 1 A baby is killed when religious extremists use the mother as a human shield in an attack on Afghan troops.
2010.01.30 Thailand Pattani 2 0 A man and his wife are murdered by Islamic radicals while on their way to work at a rubber plantation.
2010.01.29 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 1 3 At least one civilian is killed during a sustained Taliban assault on a commercial district.
2010.01.29 Somalia Mogadishu 10 35 An al-Shabaab ambush leaves at least 10 people dead.
2010.01.29 India Kishtwar 2 0 Two Indian troops are gunned down in cold blood by Islamic militants.
2010.01.29 Thailand Pattani 1 2 A bomb detonated at a mosque kills a local soldier.
2010.01.29 Afghanistan Wardak 2 0 An interpreter suddendly turns on two US soldiers, killing both.
2010.01.28 Ingushetia Nazran 1 0 Islamic militants fire on a car, killing the driver.
2010.01.28 Somalia Mogadishu 2 5 Two Ugandan peacekeepers die from shrapnel injuries suffered during an Islamist mortar attack.
2010.01.28 Iraq Adel 1 0 An imam is gunned down by Muslim rivals while leaving a mosque.
2010.01.28 Iran Tehran 2 0 Two people are executed for 'waging war against Allah'.
2010.01.28 Iraq Mosul 4 3 Jihadi bombers take down four Iraqis.
2010.01.27 Ingushetia Nazran 2 2 Two police officers die in the hospital from injuries suffered in a Islamic ambush.
2010.01.27 Somalia Hiran 8 0 Rival Islamic groups Hizbul Islam and al-Shabaab go on a beheading spree, lopping off at least four heads apiece.
2010.01.27 Pakistan Dir 3 0 Three children are murdered by Taliban bombers while grazing their family goats.
2010.01.27 Iraq Mosul 2 0 Muslim terrorists shoot two people to death.
2010.01.27 Pakistan Mardan 1 5 A drive-by attack by Sunni hardliners leaves one cop dead.
2010.01.27 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Islamists assassinate a local official at a market.
2010.01.27 Iraq Baghdad 2 5 A woman is among two people murdered by Mujahid gunmen.
2010.01.26 Iraq Mosul 0 1 A Christian shopkeeper is targeted by Muslim gunmen and seriously injured.
2010.01.26 Pakistan Salarzai 1 0 A local tribesman is abducted and murdered by Sunni extremists.
2010.01.26 Thailand Pattani 3 0 Two Buddhist contruction workers are among three people gunned down Islamic separatists in two attacks.
2010.01.26 Iraq Baghdad 22 80 A Shahid suicide bomber murders over twenty people working at a police crime lab.
2010.01.26 Somalia Mogadishu 5 3 al-Shabaab Islamists bomb a hospital clinic, killing at leat five.
2010.01.26 Afghanistan Helmand 4 0 Talibanis ambush and kill four local policemen in the middle of the night.
2010.01.25 Yemen Sanaa 3 0 al-Qaeda militants attack a checkpoint, killing three local soldiers.
2010.01.25 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A woman and her daughter are shot to death in their own home by Holy Warriors.
2010.01.25 Iraq Kirkuk 2 0 Two cops sitting at a gas station are wasted by Sunni gunmen.
2010.01.25 Iraq Baghdad 41 102 Three horrific bomb attacks on hotels leave at least three dozen dead and many more in agony.
2010.01.25 Somalia Sool 2 3 Two police officers are killed by a bomb hidden in a mosque.
2010.01.24 Iraq Mosul 6 2 Six Iraqis are killed in two Mujahid bomb blasts.




Thats for just this year. I can go on if you please.

And for verification I am posting several of the events with links, though I have no intention on digging them all up.


http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Punjab:-Christian-burned-alive-dies,-Christian-community-calls-for-justice-17960.html

Thats for the 3/22 event


http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=72328875&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281

Thats for the 3/24 listing


http://article.wn.com/view/2010/03/13/Suicide_bombers_kill_50_in_Pakistan/

Thats for the 3/13 listing.


Islam. The religion of peace, love, and a real fucking big body count.

Go back and reread my first statement, I never said that all people against health care are  racially motivated.  I specifically said that I can see it with the birthers and the jokers screaming about how he is a Muslim.  

Where is me saying that I don't think Sarah Palin's beliefs are compatible with some one running holding a position of that magnitude saying that she doesn't have the right to believe them?  There is a difference between being affiliated with something and practicing and preaching everything the people of that group say.  I want to see, or read credible quotes of Obama saying an of the negative things that people you are associating him with are saying.  If you dig in to anyone's history you are going to find affiliations with groups on every fringe, unless they have lived sheltered lives.  

I'm not going to bother posting the footage of Palin saying that Iraq is God's war, or that we should teach her Religions creation myth in public schools.  We've all seen it over and over.   Where is the footage of Obama repeating the things that Rev Wright said?  

Catholicism has been linked to the Genocides in Rwanda which happened in the 90s. I know a couple of priests got the death sentence for their roll in the massacre of a few thousand.  The death toll for the genocide there alone blows your entire list out of the water.   I don't even need to include domestic Christian terrorism to compete.

Yes you do. If you are the one suggesting Christian extremism is just as, or more rampant than radical Islam then put up the case facts or don't spout such fallacy.

And regarding the domestic attacks from Islam extremists, I haven't even listed those myself.

Do you see some radical Cardinal or Pope saying he will attack America if we execute Christians? NO.

Right now an Islamic extremist is threatening to attack America if we execute KSM.



And you shouldn't have to. Again you said:


And if that sentiment is true, then it shouldn't fuck all matter what she has to say or believes.

But you are still dodging the question:


I'm not seeing Alaska as the new bastion of Christianity since her reign as Pope. Just sayin' ..

You know whats racist?  A Tax on tanning salons.  Think about it.

Oh yeah and Andrew Dice Clay.  That Dago is crazy racist.   8)

I'm pretty sure Palin accomplished nothing in the 3 years or so before she quit as governor.  She doesn't have the ability to do anything about abortion at the state level.   I know she was trying to pull this sort of shit at the Mayor level though.

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

Maybe she learned her lesson and stopped trying as governor to pull that sort of crap.  Find me an instance of Obama claiming a war was his gods will, or trying to go about banning books.  That's all I ask.  There is where the difference lies, as I have said over and over. It needs to be separated and I think Obama understands that, as I have said over and over and over...  



Not saying it as rampant, but in death tolls Islam is still playing catch up and one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world is forcibly converting people to Christianity yet you give them a free pass.  Why?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura

Kastil......Dice is a jew....not a dago

Night, You might ought to read up on a little thing called the crusades before you say extreme Islam is more violent than extreme Christianity. That's not one instance of violence, that's a very long series of incidents all grouped under the Crusade umbrella. They are both very violent religions when taken to the extreme.

Night, you're retarded for ignoring what is blatantly true no matter which side of the spectrum you stand on. The fact that EVERYONE in media and politics hides, distorts, corrupts, and massacres the truth.

Thrun, you're retarded because you think Obama is any different than Palin in his religious views. Just because he's smart enough not to talk about it out loud absolutely does not mean he doesn't use his religion to govern his acts. He's smart enough to fool those who dislike religion.

How exactly am I being fooled by him if I know he is religious and he doesn't make attempts to interject his religion in to politics over and over, i.e. the abortion thing, not being retarded enough to call something a holly war and book banning.  That's ALL I am asking for out of him on that front.

I'm saying that just because you don't see him interjecting his religion most certainly doesn't mean he isn't. But since I have no proof that he is or is not I'll go ahead and say I'm wrong. Because I probably am.

Obviously anyone's religion is going to come into play in how they live, or their moral stances so it's not like I think you are entirely wrong. 

Yeah I think I somehow missed that being history major and all. Or should I also start countering that with historical accounts of Moorish brutality on Christians, or the Turkish enslavement of Christians, which has nothing to do with the discussion?

Or could it be that its not even pertaining to the issue at hand, which is paranoia of today's radical Islam, on account of them distorting it to their means to justifiably kill people in many attacks this decade?

You out to read up on a little thing called relevance.


Have you even been reading the discussion? Me and Thrun have both already pointed out that all media is biased.


You're not going to win any votes with that rhetoric. If Thrun and I thought this of each other on account of our stances, we at least had the respect for each other to wax philisophical with lengthy reasons as to why each other's perspectives are invalid, and never resort to short, snide headers such as you've done.



Yeah that book banning rumor, started from one single librarian was quite laughable. It's no coincidence that the librarian is also Liberal  :D

Of course for some reason we never seen that book burning zealotry carry over to her term as Governor, it must have magically dissipated into a million little God particles.

Well shit, whats the {quote] setup like since I never learned how to do it manually.

Sorry Red he just looks Italian, I forgot Italians have hair only on the right side of each nipple.  Also I forgot Italians need for "Beating the beat".
[yt=425,350]-CsSmkUFh6Q[/yt]

The man that uses the phrase 'liberal hypocrisy'  as much as you do shouldn't be talking about short, snide headers. 

Oh yeah?

You referring to my mark in the Glenn Beck thread? Did you watch the vid?

(http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx243/sherpasupreme/3085265.jpg)


.

secretary:

Hitler’s and Obama’s health enabling acts
 By Dr. Laurie Roth  Saturday, March 27, 2010
President Hitler signed a shockingly similar bill with similar tactics used to get it signed….threats,  harassment,  false promises,  intimidation, invented crises.  Gee….did Obama take lessons from Hitler?  He certainly proudly taught ACORN workers from Saul Alinsky’s book,  Rules for Radicals, so why not go back to the original power crazed,  crowd manipulator and evil visionary?  On that fateful day, March 23rd Hitler signed into law the National Law for Removing the Distress of the People bill.  It was also called Hitler’s Enabling Act.  

I talked with Steve Eichler of faxdc.com this week on air about these two dates and the horrifying similarities of the two events in history.  Steve and I probed whether we were indeed reliving history.  We both studied the events of 1933 and 2010 and said a big fat yes!
It is horrifying how similar both acts are.

First of all, understand Hitler was a brilliant, charismatic speaker who said things in style, lied through his teeth and manipulated whatever he had to, to get a vote and power.  His big dagger in the heart of the German people and constitution was to somehow get the vote by Parliament to pass his Enabling Act,  which, due to contrived crises and manipulated need would give him total power,  full power without the need of any more votes or Parliament.  
Obama also seduced 60% of the nation, congress and most the media into not asking real questions and just believing his countless lies.
What did Hitler do?  He first manufactured the need and crises.

Hitler promised Health care for everyone, jobs for 100% of the German people and protection from what he called the beginning of a widespread uprising.  This was the mythological uprising he and his Nazi party created by burning down the German government building,  causing huge panic and rage in the people.  Hitler at the time blamed the horrific burning on the communists,  thus he needed a vote for his Enabling Act to stop this out of control terror in Germany.  

Napolitano, Homeland Security and Obama have called conservative Americans domestic terrorists,  even returning Vets.  We saw the other leaked report from the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) that listed Rev. Chuck Baldwin and Ron Paul and their followers of even being potential domestic terrorists.  

In 1933, it was Jews and Communists.  In 2010, not only does this growing enemy list seem anti Semitic and anti Israel, but Obama has new enemies to add.  These include Christians,  gun owners,  pro lifers,  Vets,  Tea Party people,  Republicans. Talk radio hosts and conservatives in general.  
Doug Hagmann of North East Intelligence Network homelandsecurityus.com confirmed these growing controls by our Government even more with a recent conversation he had with an intelligence source, who talked of Homeland Security actively investigating incidents and threats of violence made to at least ten Democrats.  Of course you would want and expect them to investigate if there were real threats, but Doug said more lists were being made with their focus and suspicions on tea-party organizations and pro-life groups.  

How did the Nazis get the votes for Hitler for the Enabling Act?
Intimidation

The Nazis chanted loudly around the opera house Parliament was voting in,  “Full powers – or else!  We want the bill or fire and murder!!”  They also lined the halls and aisles, glaring and intimidating Parliament members to vote Hitler’s way….or else.  

False promises

Hitler needed 31 non-Nazi votes to pass his draconian bill and shred his country’s constitution.  He got those by promising a limited use of his power…only using it for critical reasons,  he promised no more unemployment, peace with France,  Great Britain and the Soviet Union and to sucker the Center Party to give him the votes he needed, he promised to give back some basic rights that had already been taken away from them.  
Hitler spoke;  Hitler lied;  Hitler intimidated; Hitler promised jobs, health care and safety; and Hitler won the vote 441 to 84.
March 23, 1933, everything changed for Germany.  After that vote,  their constitution was shredded.  The most evil dictator of our time would rise to power, shockingly, by the vote of the people in Parliament.  Massive controls,  mass murders targeting Jews,  Communists, non-supporters of Hitler and world war followed.  

The Germans believed the speeches….promises of health care,  economic revival and jobs for all.  No one thought in German Parliament that voting for Hitler’s Enabling Act would lead to the murder of millions of innocent people,  destroy their freedom and bring WW2,  but it did.

Look at the similarities:
Obama shockingly also signed the constitution shredding,  freedom stealing health care bill into law March 23, 2010 - 77 years later to the day.  He also gave speech after speech on America’s ‘crisis’ of health care and need for massive Government intervention and correction.  

This health care bill,  like Hitler’s Enabling Act,  forces many things on the American people.  For the first time in U.S. history, it forces all Americans to have health insurance or face huge fines or even jail time.  This is forced health insurance that the Government says is acceptable.  Forcing the public to buy a product or service has never been done by our Government.  Obama and Pelosi are currently distorting and hiding behind the ‘commerce’ clause.  I have interviewed two constitutional attorneys on my national radio show.  They confirmed that the commerce argument trying to validate this mandate was 100% false and taken completely out of context.  

Obama couldn’t find a more intimidating, powerful and menacing control of health care than the dreaded and huge IRS.  It is almost as if he put the military in control of tracking us with the potential intimidation and enforcement plans attached.  It will be frightening enough with the IRS breathing down our throats.  His plan of control kind of makes you think of the Nazi party.

Obama and the Democrats used the same intimation, bribes, and harassment and pay offs as Hitler did getting the votes to line up.  We saw the Louisiana Purchase, Corn Husker payoffs and payoffs to Stupak Airports.  All this and more suckered the pro life Democrats to sell out on the abortion issue.  They shamefully caved in when our manipulative and lying President,  Obama offered the executive order to stop tax payer money from paying for abortions.  In talking with several constitutional attorneys on this,  they all said that issuing an executive order was pure theater since NO EXECUTIVE ORDER CAN TRUMP A LAW JUST PASSED BY THE CONGRESS AND SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT.
 
We will never know the amount of payoffs, bribes and intimidation that really happened to set up the vote for Obama.  We saw an example of how Obama’s goon, Rahm Emanuel, works when he poked Rep. Eric Massa in the chest when they were showering.  He intimidated and harassed him, even physically poking him while naked to vote for Obama’s bill.  This was the Nazi-like response from Emanuel to one of their own who had dared to vote no the first time.  Never mind that Massa was resigning largely due to his fighting cancer.  

Remember,  Hitler and the Nazi party started with promises of health care,  environmentalism/green issues,  promise of creating jobs and protecting the country from threats like the communists and Jews.  

Obama has also started his first 15 months with false promises regarding jobs and the economy and health care.  Soon he will push amnesty to secure illegal votes from illegal aliens then cap and trade to shred, regulate and control American business.  

He is pushing on several fronts for Health ID cards,  forced worker cards,  as was spoken about this month in the Wall Street Journal and smart grid technology to track all the energy and electricity used in our homes.  Think of it.  As Hitler quickly did,  Obama is boldly attempting to collect, control on line,  all our medical and mental health records,  tracked through the IRS.  He is also planning to know who we all are,  where we work, hiding behind the immigration issue.  We would have to have and show our worker card to have a job.  He even wants to control energy and the utility use in our own homes with the smart grid use and push.  

The Nazi party was proudly ‘Green’  and environmentally obsessed.  That was just one of their many attacks on the Jews….they were too capitalistic,  they were mean to animals and the environment….lie lie lie.  

Obama is also obsessed with passing the draconian and controlling Cap and Trade bill that is based on fraudulent global warming science.  This would micromanage, regulate and control American business right into the ground or simply turn them into obedient serfs that forcibly serve Obama and the Government,  or go bankrupt.

Violence followed the manipulated votes in Hitler’s direction after his health care,  environmental,  economic/job and national protection push in Germany.
What will the American people do now with another unconstitutional bill designed to control us and shred our constitutional rights as Hitler did 77 years ago on the same day?  

So far, the Attorney General suits are flying regarding the violation of 10th amendment rights and forced mandates.  Other law suits are lining up due to the multi-layer, constitutional breaches.  The Tea Party groups are growing through the roof.  Faxes,  emails and phone calls are flying to congress like never before, and mental health centers and retirement services are hiring new staff just to absorb the amount of congress people who will be out of work after the Mid terms.

We must march,  scream,  yell,  write, call,  vote,  organize and pray.  Together we will get this nightmare regime out of congress and our White house back.  Violence is not what is needed, but clear thinking and action is needed NOW.  We cannot allow what happened in 1933 to happen in 2010.  Wake up and focus, America!

Check out this history yourself at thehistoryplace.com

[yt=425,350]nYlZiWK2Iy8[/yt]

Keep it classy, conspiracy theorists.

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/m4r6YCUtxfs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/m4r6YCUtxfs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

sorry, not trying to beat a dead horse with this but i thought it was funny how the congressman got "spit" on

[yt=425,350]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c0UIUdDMbeU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c0UIUdDMbeU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/yt]

jesus, now THIS is a conspiracy?  Get a job.

you are a conspiracy

http://www.kittehroulette.com/

LOL

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001567-503544.html

geeze JT, calm down. i was simply pointing out that he wasn't actually spit on that's not a conspiracy that's a fact.

I'm cool as a cucumber.  It's just another non-issue that will undoubtedly get media attention instead of substantive stories.  He-said-she-said nonsense like that is the smokescreen politicians count on to keep the masses distracted while they push the agenda of their corporate sponsors.

I find it pretty substantive that an anti spending government group is charged as racists, and Congressman engage in fraudulant trolling attempts to "prove" them as such.

I guess that's just me though, because i'm against the revoking of choices which has happened with this bill. And that's a fucking fact. If I want to go out and rally against the government on such grounds, I suddenly become a Republican racist that holds on to guns, gold, and God.... YEEEEHAAWWW!!

Whether the Left or the Right politicians and media use the backlash to their favor is irrelevant. What is relevant is that somewhere in all that smokescreen I, along with other citizens just got fucked out of our ability to make a choice, and I don't need a media outlet or politician to amp me up on that, nor am I subscribing to a distraction.



HAHA RED, erm.. FluffyJR2, I just noticed that capsize vid. Fucking hilarious  :D

You personally may not be distracted, Night.  But petty nonsense like the spitting thing hijacks the overall discourse in this country on a daily basis.  All that time that could be spent talking about real issues is essentially wasted on someone trying to smear someone else.  People in this country have forgotten how to work together because we're always looking for a way to "get" the other guy.  The reason for this?  It's good for ratings.  Remember in elementary school when 2 kids were going to fight after school and all the other kids would show up to watch?  People love conflict. 

Also: Everyone is at least a little racist.  It's built into our lizard brains. 

Anyone know where all the people that are up in arms about our "health care rights" were when this happened?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

Um, they were fighting a war on Terror. Quit hating America.

Pffft.....Everyone knows that if you commit crimes you only communicate face to face. All codes can be cracked.

a republican was in office so they didn't care thrun, they have trouble breaking the paradigm.

Amen brother.

Now how do we go about working together to get this healthcare bill repealed so we can have our choices back?  ;)


No it's not. Also the term "racist/ism" isn't even properly used. Ethnicity would be more appropriate.

What's built into our "lizard brains" is fear of what we initially do not comprehend. Pretty much everyone grows up initially fearing the opposite sex, and at some point people realize the opposite sex aren't in fact aliens. Same thing with people of different ethnicities interacting with each other.




They are probably off somewhere with the "Close Gitmo", "End the illegal wars" and "Repeal the Patriot Act" people.

Because Gitmo is still up, both wars are still running (with Afgan. having revved up even), and the Patriot Act is still intact even after change of Presidency.

Its just like all of a sudden their issues became non issues, because I haven't seen lick-o-fuck about protests concerning that stuff over the last year or so.... hmm, I think you might have something with this one Thrun. There's definitely something going on with this.